2009 Aussie RA - Tweaking and Tuning
Nov 8, 2010, 05:25 PM
#16
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Have you adjusted your max ignition timing map? Your log values follow the max timing table on my stock rom. I don't have the address for your rom id, but I bet thats you problem. You can't ask more of the car in the high octane map in that area without changing the limit.
At RPM 3900-4000 and Load 230-235 my timing table is around the 8-9 degree mark. So I was a bit surprised to see 6-7 degree timing being used by the ECU in the "red" log lines above.
I'll put up the spark timing table alongside the logged data when I can. I'll also run an EcuFlash "ROM file to ECU image" comparison to eliminate the "idiot factor".
Rich
Nov 8, 2010, 05:33 PM
#17
What I am saying is that there is an additional map you need to tweak to allow you to run more timing than the car is currently using in that area. You could ask 20 degree of timing, and the car would run 6-7 with no knock if you don't raise the timing limit as well as the high octane map.
Nov 8, 2010, 05:56 PM
#18
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
What I am saying is that there is an additional map you need to tweak to allow you to run more timing than the car is currently using in that area. You could ask 20 degree of timing, and the car would run 6-7 with no knock if you don't raise the timing limit as well as the high octane map.
Background info: I haven't advanced timing on any GST-sourced base map... I've only ever taken out a degree from certain sections in response to observed light (repeatable) knock. So I'm not trying to squeeze more advanced timing out of it myself.
However, I do need to understand how to walk through things like these timing map tables, see cause and effect, etc. Finding areas like the highlighted one where cause and effect appear to disconnect means my understanding is obviously incomplete. And I really hate not knowing everything... which is a pity, as it happens a lot.
> there is an additional map
So please tell me more...
Rich
Nov 8, 2010, 06:06 PM
#19
As I said, unfortunately I don't have the address for your rom. I certainly don't have all the answers. I was just letting you know that timing was limited by an alternate map. If you have not adjusted the timing from GST's map, then it is tuned right on the boundary of the max timing table. I doubt it is the same address, but if it is, you can find it here https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...additions.html
I hope you get this sorted out
I hope you get this sorted out
Nov 8, 2010, 07:51 PM
#23
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Brilliant. I'm not going mad, then.
Well, no more mad than your average person who scrutinises engine logs all night, surrounded by scrawled-on graphs and endless lists of numbers. It's time to do up the laces on my jacket, doctor.Questions...
Is this upper bound map some kind of a soft safety limit, or is this a deadly serious Map That Shall Not Be Altered?
If that "other" map is a no-touchee thing, should I edit the High Octane ignition timing map so the numbers in there don't exceed those values in the upper bound map? It would be easier when map tracing to avoid having to cross-ref between both...
Rich
PS. Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone. This stuff is gold.
Nov 8, 2010, 09:36 PM
#24
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Brilliant. I'm not going mad, then. Well, no more mad than your average person who scrutinises engine logs all night, surrounded by scrawled-on graphs and endless lists of numbers. It's time to do up the laces on my jacket, doctor.
Questions...
Is this upper bound map some kind of a soft safety limit, or is this a deadly serious Map That Shall Not Be Altered?
If that "other" map is a no-touchee thing, should I edit the High Octane ignition timing map so the numbers in there don't exceed those values in the upper bound map? It would be easier when map tracing to avoid having to cross-ref between both...
Rich
PS. Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone. This stuff is gold.
Well, no more mad than your average person who scrutinises engine logs all night, surrounded by scrawled-on graphs and endless lists of numbers. It's time to do up the laces on my jacket, doctor.Questions...
Is this upper bound map some kind of a soft safety limit, or is this a deadly serious Map That Shall Not Be Altered?
If that "other" map is a no-touchee thing, should I edit the High Octane ignition timing map so the numbers in there don't exceed those values in the upper bound map? It would be easier when map tracing to avoid having to cross-ref between both...
Rich
PS. Thanks for the help and suggestions, everyone. This stuff is gold.
- Bryan
Nov 8, 2010, 10:56 PM
#25
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Cool.
To err on the side of caution, I'll manually adjust the affected cells in the Spark Map, then slowly advance them back up, monitoring for knock. Unless I'm very much mistaken, this recent discovery means that certain Spark Map cells have never actually been run as defined - they have instead been retarded according to a second table.
So I feel a certain amount of caution is warranted.
I'll post the final results up in the GST thread - when I eventually get there. I'll first need someone smarter than I to give me an EcuFlash XML. To that end...
Hey Merlin, my special friend!
(I have many special friends, but you, sir, are special)
Is there a chance you can hook me up with a 2009 AUS RA xml tweak to present the "Max Timing" map in EcuFlash?
It looks like I need access to it...
Cheers!
Rich
To err on the side of caution, I'll manually adjust the affected cells in the Spark Map, then slowly advance them back up, monitoring for knock. Unless I'm very much mistaken, this recent discovery means that certain Spark Map cells have never actually been run as defined - they have instead been retarded according to a second table.
So I feel a certain amount of caution is warranted.
I'll post the final results up in the GST thread - when I eventually get there. I'll first need someone smarter than I to give me an EcuFlash XML. To that end...
Hey Merlin, my special friend!
(I have many special friends, but you, sir, are special
)Is there a chance you can hook me up with a 2009 AUS RA xml tweak to present the "Max Timing" map in EcuFlash?
It looks like I need access to it...
Cheers!
Rich
Last edited by richardjh; Nov 8, 2010 at 10:59 PM. Reason: clarification
Nov 10, 2010, 04:04 AM
#28
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
If anyone's interested in raw data, here is a record of AFR and torque measurements taken on a DynaPack dyno pull... GST Base Map, 93oct Boost Pill V2...
- DynaPack: 1.00 total correction factor
- 4th Gear
- Relative Humidity 18.7%
- Baro 1014.93 mBar
There was a bit of knock up top on that run...
I listened to what the ECU was telling me, and modified the Spark Map - retarding timing by 1* in a block from 5000rpm up, in Load ranges 220 and 240.
Rich
- DynaPack: 1.00 total correction factor
- 4th Gear
- Relative Humidity 18.7%
- Baro 1014.93 mBar
Code:
Torque RPM AFR (Nm) ----- ----- ----- 2500 14.25 292 2550 14.19 300 2700 13.90 304 2850 13.42 322 3000 13.06 346 3150 12.74 359 3300 12.44 372 3450 12.36 370 3600 12.28 372 3750 12.08 375 3900 11.86 370 4050 11.75 367 4200 11.64 363 4350 11.54 364 4500 11.55 364 4650 11.69 367 4800 11.70 367 4950 11.65 361 5100 11.62 355 5250 11.50 350 5400 11.47 342 5550 11.63 332 5700 11.66 320 5850 11.56 308 6000 11.47 299
Code:
RPM Knock TimAdv ---- ----- ------ 5250 0 13 5313 0 14 5375 4 12 5406 3 13 5469 3 13 5531 2 13 5563 2 13 5594 4 12 5625 3 13 5656 3 14 5719 2 15 5781 3 15 5813 3 15 5844 2 15 5906 2 15 5938 1 15 6000 1 15 6000 0 16
Rich
Nov 11, 2010, 03:34 PM
#30
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, he only took it to 6k. In hindsight, I would have liked to see AFRs up to the rev limiter. So until I get my stupid broken-from-the-box Innovate LC-1 issue resolved (grr), I'm ***uming that if you got the AFRs right at 6000, you got them right above there too.
And we all know what happens when you ***-u-me... you put U and ME up your... no, wait, that's not right... err...
Rich