Info: Turbo Swaps
Oct 1, 2011, 12:02 PM
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Info: Turbo Swaps
The Turbo Swap thread.
This thread is designed to be a resource for anyone who wants to upgrade the turbo in the 2009+ Ralliart.
If you've had experience with this sort of thing before, feel free to post up any data or experiences you've had with doing this swap! The more information we can provide to the users of the forum, the better.
On the other hand, if this type of swap sounds like something you'd like to learn about, please read the resources provided in this thread. Many questions can be answered by the knowledge contained in the links and posts below!
Let's begin!
Exyia has provided a good start with information about modding an RA, but has not covered turbos at the time this thread was started. It covers many of the general questions people have about modding Ralliarts.
Mods: If you wish to merge this with Exyia's RA modding thread, please do. If not, the thread is here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...g-your-ra.html
Topics:
Post 1
1a) Turbo Information Resources
1b) Turbo Theory
1c) Factory Ralliart Turbo
1d) Turbo Upgrade Options
1e) SST Considerations
Post 2
2a) More information resources
2b) RAD vs Evo X swaps: advantages/disadvantages
2c) Dyno number comparisons and some CBRD RAD and Evo X turbo dyno results
Post 3 - Modifications
3a) Restrictions
3b) Do I need a tune?
3c) UICP/LICP/FMIC
3d) Injectors
3e) Spark Plugs
3f) Exhaust, Cat
Post 4 - Dyno Data
*** Thanks to all for making this section possible, if you want your plot added to the list, post it up!***
Post 5 - Further Informations
1a) Turbo Information Resources
If you're unsure of how a turbocharger operates, or you're confused about the difference between a single and twin scroll turbo, or maybe you'd like a refresher, or even if you can't tell the difference between a eggplant and a turbo, here's some resources.
Start with the Wiki:
Turbocharger
Then move on to the Garrett tech data site (a FANTASTIC resource)
Turbo Tech 101 - Basic
Turbo Tech 102 - Advanced
Turbo Tech 103 - Expert
1b) Beware, I'm about to do some science. Here's some turbocharger theory.
When in boost, the turbo pressurizes the charge pipes, intercooler and intake manifold. The amount of boost is regulated by the wastegate. As exhaust flow increases, the impeller in turbine side of the turbocharger spins, and it is connected to the compressor side via a shaft. The compressor wheel spins and begins compressing the air. Once the compressor has reached a certain speed, (generally over 100,000 rpms) the pressure will hit a preset point and the wastegate will begin diverting additional exhaust flow around the turbine. This maintains the proper amount of boost and protects the turbo and the engine from damage.
At maximum efficiency, a turbo can flow a certain maximum amount of air. We can measure the flow rate of any given turbocharger in pounds of air per minute. This measure is used because we must measure the mass of air the turbo is flowing as opposed to the volume of air that it flows. We do this because 1 cubic foot of air at 14.5 psi (1 bar) contains double the mass of air than 1 cubic foot of air at atmospheric pressure.
1c) Let's have a look at some turbos, starting with what's under the hood from the factory.
The Rallart turbo is a single-scroll, designated TD04HL-15T-7, so it's a TD04 frame turbo. It flows air at a rate of around 25 lbs of air per minute. Data on the turbo is available here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...art-turbo.html
The Ralliart turbo can provide about 24 psi of boost at ~3500-4000 rpms, at it's maximum. Some have extracted a bit more from it, but this is a good general idea of it's capabilities. After 4000 rpms, the turbo has reached it's maximum flow rate, and as engine rpms increase, the turbo is unable to keep up with the amount of air the engine is using. The 4B11T is capable of using well over 40lbs/min of air at redline, even in its stock form.
Because of this, the manifold air pressure begins to decline, and by 7000 rpms, you're down to under 16psi. This is reflected in the torque curve, with torque peaking around 3500 rpms, and falling off towards the redline. You can feel the turbo running out of breath at WOT, as the car feels like it's pulling less and less as the rpms climb.
You can see this on the following dyno plot, Razorlab's RA Sportback when it was stock.
As you can see above, the torque peak (210wtq) occurs around 3600rpms, where boost was near its maximum, 17.7 psi. Torque falls off from this point, and at 6200 rpms, it's around 160wtq. Boost here has fallen to 9.7psi.
Knowing this, what needs to happen to increase whp?
Horsepower is simply a calculation of torque at a specific RPM. The calculation is WTQ*RPM/5252. This means that at 6200 rpms, there is 160wtq, and therefore 188hp. This matches the dyno plot above.
Fun fact, due to the fact that hp is calculated by this method, the HP and TQ lines on a dyno plot always cross at 5252rpms.
To increase whp, therefore, we must raise the level of torque, especially at higher RPMs. For example, using the calculation above, if this car was able to hold 17.7psi to 6200rpms, then it would be able to hold 210wtq to 6200rpms. If this occured, the car would now be producing 248whp at 6200 rpms. What about 300whp at 6500 rpms? By calculation, you'll need 242 wtq. This would require ~20 psi of boost at 6500 rpms. However, this seems to be just beyond the flow rate limit for the stock RA turbo.
1d) The solution? Upgrade the turbo to one that is capable of producing more boost, and/or holding higher boost out to redline.
A common upgrade is to swap to an Evo X turbo, a twin scroll turbo. It's designation is TD05H-152G6, making it a TD05 frame turbo. The Evo X turbo flows ~36-37 lbs/min.
Here's a size comparison (Evo X turbo and mani to the right, RA to the left).
CBRD RAD (TD04)
CBRD has produced a stock frame (TD04) turbo upgrade, called the RAD (for RalliArt Designated). It's capable of flowing ~38lbs/min. It is an attractive upgrade as it's a stock replacement.
Here's a shot of one, taken from Bronto11588's build thread.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ld-thread.html
TD05 (Evo X) frame turbo upgrades are plentiful. Here's some popular upgrades.
From Forced Performance, (FP)
FP Green ~50lbs/min (fastest spool - like Evo X)
FP Red ~56lbs/min (spool up time longer than Evo X)
FP Black >60lbs/min (longest spool, most top-end power)
From CBRD (Chad Block Racing Development)
BBX Lite ~50lbs/min
BBX ~56lbs/min
Blouch Dominator 2.0 ~50lbs/min
Tomioka Racing Sigma Turbo (Thanks to sstevojr for this find)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6JD9RiutHE
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ve...olution-x.html
1e) SST considerations
The SST transmission has been shown to be able to support between 350 and 400 ft-lbs of torque, so tuners have been working to limit torque when tuning cars running with the higher-flowing turbos. This means that if you're thinking of running without doing any SST upgrades, you'll find that buying a turbo with lots of top end power and a long spool time will be counterproductive. This is the case on the FP Red & Black, and also the BBX. Ralliart SST transmissions respond well to Evo X frame turbos in the 50lb/min range. Beyond that, and transmission coolers and clutch packs become a requirement.
This thread is designed to be a resource for anyone who wants to upgrade the turbo in the 2009+ Ralliart.
If you've had experience with this sort of thing before, feel free to post up any data or experiences you've had with doing this swap! The more information we can provide to the users of the forum, the better.
On the other hand, if this type of swap sounds like something you'd like to learn about, please read the resources provided in this thread. Many questions can be answered by the knowledge contained in the links and posts below!
Let's begin!
Exyia has provided a good start with information about modding an RA, but has not covered turbos at the time this thread was started. It covers many of the general questions people have about modding Ralliarts.
Mods: If you wish to merge this with Exyia's RA modding thread, please do. If not, the thread is here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...g-your-ra.html
Topics:
Post 1
1a) Turbo Information Resources
1b) Turbo Theory
1c) Factory Ralliart Turbo
1d) Turbo Upgrade Options
1e) SST Considerations
Post 2
2a) More information resources
2b) RAD vs Evo X swaps: advantages/disadvantages
2c) Dyno number comparisons and some CBRD RAD and Evo X turbo dyno results
Post 3 - Modifications
3a) Restrictions
3b) Do I need a tune?
3c) UICP/LICP/FMIC
3d) Injectors
3e) Spark Plugs
3f) Exhaust, Cat
Post 4 - Dyno Data
*** Thanks to all for making this section possible, if you want your plot added to the list, post it up!***
Post 5 - Further Informations
1a) Turbo Information Resources
If you're unsure of how a turbocharger operates, or you're confused about the difference between a single and twin scroll turbo, or maybe you'd like a refresher, or even if you can't tell the difference between a eggplant and a turbo, here's some resources.
Start with the Wiki:
Turbocharger
Then move on to the Garrett tech data site (a FANTASTIC resource)
Turbo Tech 101 - Basic
Turbo Tech 102 - Advanced
Turbo Tech 103 - Expert
1b) Beware, I'm about to do some science. Here's some turbocharger theory.
When in boost, the turbo pressurizes the charge pipes, intercooler and intake manifold. The amount of boost is regulated by the wastegate. As exhaust flow increases, the impeller in turbine side of the turbocharger spins, and it is connected to the compressor side via a shaft. The compressor wheel spins and begins compressing the air. Once the compressor has reached a certain speed, (generally over 100,000 rpms) the pressure will hit a preset point and the wastegate will begin diverting additional exhaust flow around the turbine. This maintains the proper amount of boost and protects the turbo and the engine from damage.
At maximum efficiency, a turbo can flow a certain maximum amount of air. We can measure the flow rate of any given turbocharger in pounds of air per minute. This measure is used because we must measure the mass of air the turbo is flowing as opposed to the volume of air that it flows. We do this because 1 cubic foot of air at 14.5 psi (1 bar) contains double the mass of air than 1 cubic foot of air at atmospheric pressure.
1c) Let's have a look at some turbos, starting with what's under the hood from the factory.
The Rallart turbo is a single-scroll, designated TD04HL-15T-7, so it's a TD04 frame turbo. It flows air at a rate of around 25 lbs of air per minute. Data on the turbo is available here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...art-turbo.html
The Ralliart turbo can provide about 24 psi of boost at ~3500-4000 rpms, at it's maximum. Some have extracted a bit more from it, but this is a good general idea of it's capabilities. After 4000 rpms, the turbo has reached it's maximum flow rate, and as engine rpms increase, the turbo is unable to keep up with the amount of air the engine is using. The 4B11T is capable of using well over 40lbs/min of air at redline, even in its stock form.
Because of this, the manifold air pressure begins to decline, and by 7000 rpms, you're down to under 16psi. This is reflected in the torque curve, with torque peaking around 3500 rpms, and falling off towards the redline. You can feel the turbo running out of breath at WOT, as the car feels like it's pulling less and less as the rpms climb.
You can see this on the following dyno plot, Razorlab's RA Sportback when it was stock.
As you can see above, the torque peak (210wtq) occurs around 3600rpms, where boost was near its maximum, 17.7 psi. Torque falls off from this point, and at 6200 rpms, it's around 160wtq. Boost here has fallen to 9.7psi.
Knowing this, what needs to happen to increase whp?
Horsepower is simply a calculation of torque at a specific RPM. The calculation is WTQ*RPM/5252. This means that at 6200 rpms, there is 160wtq, and therefore 188hp. This matches the dyno plot above.
Fun fact, due to the fact that hp is calculated by this method, the HP and TQ lines on a dyno plot always cross at 5252rpms.
To increase whp, therefore, we must raise the level of torque, especially at higher RPMs. For example, using the calculation above, if this car was able to hold 17.7psi to 6200rpms, then it would be able to hold 210wtq to 6200rpms. If this occured, the car would now be producing 248whp at 6200 rpms. What about 300whp at 6500 rpms? By calculation, you'll need 242 wtq. This would require ~20 psi of boost at 6500 rpms. However, this seems to be just beyond the flow rate limit for the stock RA turbo.
1d) The solution? Upgrade the turbo to one that is capable of producing more boost, and/or holding higher boost out to redline.
A common upgrade is to swap to an Evo X turbo, a twin scroll turbo. It's designation is TD05H-152G6, making it a TD05 frame turbo. The Evo X turbo flows ~36-37 lbs/min.
Here's a size comparison (Evo X turbo and mani to the right, RA to the left).
CBRD RAD (TD04)
CBRD has produced a stock frame (TD04) turbo upgrade, called the RAD (for RalliArt Designated). It's capable of flowing ~38lbs/min. It is an attractive upgrade as it's a stock replacement.
Here's a shot of one, taken from Bronto11588's build thread.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...ld-thread.html
TD05 (Evo X) frame turbo upgrades are plentiful. Here's some popular upgrades.
From Forced Performance, (FP)
FP Green ~50lbs/min (fastest spool - like Evo X)
FP Red ~56lbs/min (spool up time longer than Evo X)
FP Black >60lbs/min (longest spool, most top-end power)
From CBRD (Chad Block Racing Development)
BBX Lite ~50lbs/min
BBX ~56lbs/min
Blouch Dominator 2.0 ~50lbs/min
Tomioka Racing Sigma Turbo (Thanks to sstevojr for this find)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6JD9RiutHE
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ve...olution-x.html
1e) SST considerations
The SST transmission has been shown to be able to support between 350 and 400 ft-lbs of torque, so tuners have been working to limit torque when tuning cars running with the higher-flowing turbos. This means that if you're thinking of running without doing any SST upgrades, you'll find that buying a turbo with lots of top end power and a long spool time will be counterproductive. This is the case on the FP Red & Black, and also the BBX. Ralliart SST transmissions respond well to Evo X frame turbos in the 50lb/min range. Beyond that, and transmission coolers and clutch packs become a requirement.
Last edited by SudzRA; Nov 16, 2011 at 02:40 PM.
Oct 1, 2011, 12:03 PM
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2a) More information resources!
Good info for swapping a GT30 frame turbo onto an Evo X. Lots of pictures, gives you an idea for how a stock frame Evo X turbo is mounted and where all the coolant/oil lines come from and where they go. Thanks to 10Sportback for this!
Evo X Upgrade Kit Installation Instructions
NFSLancerRA's recommended reading materials
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...materials.html
EricJ@AMS's Complete Evo X swap parts list
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...arts-list.html
CBRD RAD turbo upgrade thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...d-turbo-3.html
Razorlab's Project Ralliart Sportback
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...sportback.html
2b) For those choosing between doing the RAD and Evo X turbo swaps, some advantages/disadvantages.
RAD upgrade
Advantages: Pricing, ease of install, many less parts involved
Disadvantages: Once upgraded, you're at the ceiling for what the stock frame turbo can do. Other than bolt-ons, there is no further upgrade path from here.
Evo X (TD05) upgrade
Advantages: This swap opens up a world of options for upgrades and makes available swaps to any upgraded TD05 turbo. At this point, the amount of power you wish to make depends on how much you wish to spend.
Disadvantages: Cost is a factor, as is the number of parts involved and the relative complexity of the upgrade (compared to the CBRD RAD).
2c)Dyno number comparsions and some numbers from the RAD and BBX Lite (Upgraded TD05)
*Bear in mind, due to the differences in the way dynos read, and also differences between ambient temperature, altitude, etc., dyno comparisons between two cars on different dynos, or on different days, is invalid. The only way to get a valid comparison would be to run two cars against each other on the same day on the same dyno, using multiple runs, and taking an average of the runs for each car. For example, 6 dyno runs, 1-3-5 for car A, 2-4-6 for car B, take averages for the runs, compare.*
Here's a great example of dyno differences, provided by TOralliart. It's a direct comparison of RRE's Dynapack Dyno and GST's Mustang Dyno (Evo X swap).
For reference, a stock RA puts down about 190-195whp, on a Mustang dyno.
CBRD RAD, stock catback (as tested by CBRD)
290whp/295wtq, Mustang dyno (no mention of gas type)
Ridesober
292whp/300wtq
CBRD says that they lost ~20whp/20wtq due to stock intake and exhaust.
Bryan (Razorlab) BBX Lite
320whp/275wtq, Mustang dyno, 91oct, stock catback
370whp/326wtq, Mustang dyno, E85, stock catback
Good info for swapping a GT30 frame turbo onto an Evo X. Lots of pictures, gives you an idea for how a stock frame Evo X turbo is mounted and where all the coolant/oil lines come from and where they go. Thanks to 10Sportback for this!
Evo X Upgrade Kit Installation Instructions
NFSLancerRA's recommended reading materials
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...materials.html
EricJ@AMS's Complete Evo X swap parts list
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...arts-list.html
CBRD RAD turbo upgrade thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...d-turbo-3.html
Razorlab's Project Ralliart Sportback
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...sportback.html
2b) For those choosing between doing the RAD and Evo X turbo swaps, some advantages/disadvantages.
RAD upgrade
Advantages: Pricing, ease of install, many less parts involved
Disadvantages: Once upgraded, you're at the ceiling for what the stock frame turbo can do. Other than bolt-ons, there is no further upgrade path from here.
Evo X (TD05) upgrade
Advantages: This swap opens up a world of options for upgrades and makes available swaps to any upgraded TD05 turbo. At this point, the amount of power you wish to make depends on how much you wish to spend.
Disadvantages: Cost is a factor, as is the number of parts involved and the relative complexity of the upgrade (compared to the CBRD RAD).
2c)Dyno number comparsions and some numbers from the RAD and BBX Lite (Upgraded TD05)
*Bear in mind, due to the differences in the way dynos read, and also differences between ambient temperature, altitude, etc., dyno comparisons between two cars on different dynos, or on different days, is invalid. The only way to get a valid comparison would be to run two cars against each other on the same day on the same dyno, using multiple runs, and taking an average of the runs for each car. For example, 6 dyno runs, 1-3-5 for car A, 2-4-6 for car B, take averages for the runs, compare.*
Here's a great example of dyno differences, provided by TOralliart. It's a direct comparison of RRE's Dynapack Dyno and GST's Mustang Dyno (Evo X swap).
For reference, a stock RA puts down about 190-195whp, on a Mustang dyno.
CBRD RAD, stock catback (as tested by CBRD)
290whp/295wtq, Mustang dyno (no mention of gas type)
Ridesober
292whp/300wtq
CBRD says that they lost ~20whp/20wtq due to stock intake and exhaust.
Bryan (Razorlab) BBX Lite
320whp/275wtq, Mustang dyno, 91oct, stock catback
370whp/326wtq, Mustang dyno, E85, stock catback
Last edited by SudzRA; Oct 3, 2011 at 03:47 PM.
Oct 1, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Supporting mods recommended/required for turbo upgrades - a basic list
3a) Restrictions
Modifying the RA (or any car, for that matter) is all about removing restrictions and allowing the engine to breathe more efficiently. In a stock RA, the ECU tuning is the first restriction you will run into. Having a tune done will take the car out of it's choking rich stock fuel maps, will increase boost, will modify the ignition timing, and even might tune your MIVEC maps. All of these things help to increase the amount of air coming to the engine, and once there, also helps to provide the proper amount of fuel to allow for safe and efficient combustion. Other restrictions include the stock catalytic converter, LICP, UICP, FMIC, and to a lesser degree the cat-back exhaust and intake.
3b) Do I need a tune?
Tuning is REQUIRED for any turbo upgrade! The CBRD RAD turbo upgrade comes with a basemap to get your car running, but still requires a tune as no car is exactly like yours. Find out pricing and have arrangements taken care of for getting your car tuned before attempting any turbo swap.
3c) UICP, LICP, FMIC
Changing your UICP removes the factory flexy-hose and replaces it with a more rigid pipe, allowing for improved throttle response (stock UICP will flex under boost). Swapping your LICP for an Evo X or aftermarket piece elimates the bendy, restricted factory piece.
Stock RA LICP vs CBRD LICP
The most important mod of the UICP, LICP, FMIC combo is, perhaps obviously, the FMIC. The stock FMIC is small, and becomes heatsoaked easily even on a stock RA.
Heatsoak is explained by thermodynamics:
Compressing a gas adds energy to a gas, and this increases the rate of collision of the molecules in the gas. Higher collision rates due to higher energy particles causes an increase in temperature. The more the gas is compressed, the more the temperature increases. When the compressed air crosses the intercooler, it acts as a heat exchanger. Heat energy is transferred to the fins of the intercooler as the air travels across it. This heat increases the temperature of the fins, which then transfer this energy to passing air molecules outside the intercooler. The rate at which the metal can transfer heat is fixed, so therefore more metal = more heat transfer. When you have an intercooler that is too small for the amount of heated air travelling through it, it begins absorbing energy faster than it can shed it. Eventually, it reaches the same temperature as the air moving through it, and it becomes completely heatsoaked. At this point, it's efficieny is null.
A heatsoaked intercooler will cause your car to produce less power for a few reasons.
1. Heated air is less dense than cooler air, which means that at the same psi level there are less air molecules in the heated air than there is in the cooled air. This causes a rich condition and the car loses power.
2. Heated air causes the temperature in the cylinders to increase, which leads to knock, causing the car to pull timing. This also results in a loss of power.
Therefore, any turbo upgrade should most definitely be accompanied with a intercooler upgrade!
Upgrading to an Evo X or aftermarket FMIC increases the internal volume by at least 100%, with many of the aftermarket FMICs having triple the volume of the stocker.
Should I just buy the biggest intercooler I can fit?
This question is best answered by determining what you want from your car when all is said and done. The disadvantage of a larger intercooler is that as you increase the internal volume, you decrease throttle responsiveness and you'll also see a pressure drop across the core. Most companies selling aftermarket intercoolers provide a max hp rating for them, so pick your intercooler based on your power goal.
Ralliart stocker vs Evo X stocker
Ralliart stocker vs CBRD intercooler
3d) Injectors
Stock RA/Evo X injectors have been shown to be good out to at least 350whp, but if your target is in that ballpark, you may want to look into upgrading your injectors to be safe. 800/850cc injectors are generally the size recommended for a pump gas tune, while on E85 a 1000cc injector upgrade is the way to go.
3e) Spark Plugs
Ralliarts built up to and including November 2008 use NGK ILKR8E6, and share this plug with the Evo X. Turbo swapped RAs should be using this plug. Ralliarts built after November 2008 are using NGK ILKR7E6, a plug one heat range warmer.
3f) Exhaust, Cat
Neither upgrade is required to make a turbo upgrade work, however both are recommended to allow for best performance from your new turbo. Options are plentiful, pick the one you like and go.
For Evo X swap specific parts, please see the Complete Evo X swap parts list, available on the second post of this thread.
3a) Restrictions
Modifying the RA (or any car, for that matter) is all about removing restrictions and allowing the engine to breathe more efficiently. In a stock RA, the ECU tuning is the first restriction you will run into. Having a tune done will take the car out of it's choking rich stock fuel maps, will increase boost, will modify the ignition timing, and even might tune your MIVEC maps. All of these things help to increase the amount of air coming to the engine, and once there, also helps to provide the proper amount of fuel to allow for safe and efficient combustion. Other restrictions include the stock catalytic converter, LICP, UICP, FMIC, and to a lesser degree the cat-back exhaust and intake.
3b) Do I need a tune?
Tuning is REQUIRED for any turbo upgrade! The CBRD RAD turbo upgrade comes with a basemap to get your car running, but still requires a tune as no car is exactly like yours. Find out pricing and have arrangements taken care of for getting your car tuned before attempting any turbo swap.
3c) UICP, LICP, FMIC
Changing your UICP removes the factory flexy-hose and replaces it with a more rigid pipe, allowing for improved throttle response (stock UICP will flex under boost). Swapping your LICP for an Evo X or aftermarket piece elimates the bendy, restricted factory piece.
Stock RA LICP vs CBRD LICP
The most important mod of the UICP, LICP, FMIC combo is, perhaps obviously, the FMIC. The stock FMIC is small, and becomes heatsoaked easily even on a stock RA.
Heatsoak is explained by thermodynamics:
Compressing a gas adds energy to a gas, and this increases the rate of collision of the molecules in the gas. Higher collision rates due to higher energy particles causes an increase in temperature. The more the gas is compressed, the more the temperature increases. When the compressed air crosses the intercooler, it acts as a heat exchanger. Heat energy is transferred to the fins of the intercooler as the air travels across it. This heat increases the temperature of the fins, which then transfer this energy to passing air molecules outside the intercooler. The rate at which the metal can transfer heat is fixed, so therefore more metal = more heat transfer. When you have an intercooler that is too small for the amount of heated air travelling through it, it begins absorbing energy faster than it can shed it. Eventually, it reaches the same temperature as the air moving through it, and it becomes completely heatsoaked. At this point, it's efficieny is null.
A heatsoaked intercooler will cause your car to produce less power for a few reasons.
1. Heated air is less dense than cooler air, which means that at the same psi level there are less air molecules in the heated air than there is in the cooled air. This causes a rich condition and the car loses power.
2. Heated air causes the temperature in the cylinders to increase, which leads to knock, causing the car to pull timing. This also results in a loss of power.
Therefore, any turbo upgrade should most definitely be accompanied with a intercooler upgrade!
Upgrading to an Evo X or aftermarket FMIC increases the internal volume by at least 100%, with many of the aftermarket FMICs having triple the volume of the stocker.
Should I just buy the biggest intercooler I can fit?
This question is best answered by determining what you want from your car when all is said and done. The disadvantage of a larger intercooler is that as you increase the internal volume, you decrease throttle responsiveness and you'll also see a pressure drop across the core. Most companies selling aftermarket intercoolers provide a max hp rating for them, so pick your intercooler based on your power goal.
Ralliart stocker vs Evo X stocker
Ralliart stocker vs CBRD intercooler
3d) Injectors
Stock RA/Evo X injectors have been shown to be good out to at least 350whp, but if your target is in that ballpark, you may want to look into upgrading your injectors to be safe. 800/850cc injectors are generally the size recommended for a pump gas tune, while on E85 a 1000cc injector upgrade is the way to go.
3e) Spark Plugs
Ralliarts built up to and including November 2008 use NGK ILKR8E6, and share this plug with the Evo X. Turbo swapped RAs should be using this plug. Ralliarts built after November 2008 are using NGK ILKR7E6, a plug one heat range warmer.
3f) Exhaust, Cat
Neither upgrade is required to make a turbo upgrade work, however both are recommended to allow for best performance from your new turbo. Options are plentiful, pick the one you like and go.
For Evo X swap specific parts, please see the Complete Evo X swap parts list, available on the second post of this thread.
Last edited by SudzRA; Oct 4, 2011 at 10:52 AM.
Oct 1, 2011, 12:03 PM
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4) Dyno plots? Done.
*Evo X dyno plots are GSR models and do NOT have limited torque!*
Razorlab stock RA numbers & base tune numbers, stock.
Razorlab's basemap thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...t-basemap.html
sstevojr
RASB w/ X-Swap on RRE Dynopack
Mods (pertinent):
Stock X turbo, mani, lines, actuator, etc
Tomioka Racing Widemouth DP
cp-e HFC
STOCK CAT BACK (major restriction right now, stock RA catback is 2.25" vs Evo catback 2.6")
RRE Muffler Mod
AEM intake
Grimmspeed 3-port
3" IC and 2.5" IC piping
What's truly awesome is that the low rpm is identical, and where the RA turbo runs out of breath she now keeps on pulling (~70whp more at 6500 rpm )
billyboy1
Here is my dyno readout for the rad upgrade. Stock reading for my car was 142, previous best of 185, with rad - 204kw. mods: ecutek, x fmic, hard piping kit, x bov, 3" exhaust, 100 cell cat and grimspeed 3port.
Baggelis - 2010 Ralliart
MBC@25psi
Evo X Turbo
Evo X Exhaust Manifold
Evo X FMIC
Evo X LICP
Muse UICP
Evo X MAF pipe SRI with Cone Filter
Megan O2 Housing
Megan Downpipe
Test Pipe
Stock RA catback Exhaust
294WHP/315WTQ
TORalliart on Evo X Stock turbo
10Sportback
Here are my #s with the EvoX turbo! 300 on the dot! I'm sure the number is not exactly 300 but close enough. Many thanks to Mitch from AMS!
badreligi0n
2009 Mitsubishi Ralliart - JordanTuned - 340hp / 340tq @ 26 PSI (Conservative to Protect SST)
Evo X Turbo Swap & LICP & BPV
ETS 3' Intercooler UR UICP & DownPipe
Custom Exhaust
Deatschwerks 800cc Injectors
Walbro 255 FP
FP 18 PSI Wastegate
Grimmspeed EBC
COBB Intake
**On E85**
AMS Ralliart on FP Red
hixlancer's RA On Blouch Dom 2.0
Razorlab's RA Sportback BBX Lite 91 oct
*Evo X dyno plots are GSR models and do NOT have limited torque!*
Razorlab stock RA numbers & base tune numbers, stock.
Razorlab's basemap thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...t-basemap.html
sstevojr
RASB w/ X-Swap on RRE Dynopack
Mods (pertinent):
Stock X turbo, mani, lines, actuator, etc
Tomioka Racing Widemouth DP
cp-e HFC
STOCK CAT BACK (major restriction right now, stock RA catback is 2.25" vs Evo catback 2.6")
RRE Muffler Mod
AEM intake
Grimmspeed 3-port
3" IC and 2.5" IC piping
What's truly awesome is that the low rpm is identical, and where the RA turbo runs out of breath she now keeps on pulling (~70whp more at 6500 rpm )
billyboy1
Here is my dyno readout for the rad upgrade. Stock reading for my car was 142, previous best of 185, with rad - 204kw. mods: ecutek, x fmic, hard piping kit, x bov, 3" exhaust, 100 cell cat and grimspeed 3port.
Baggelis - 2010 Ralliart
MBC@25psi
Evo X Turbo
Evo X Exhaust Manifold
Evo X FMIC
Evo X LICP
Muse UICP
Evo X MAF pipe SRI with Cone Filter
Megan O2 Housing
Megan Downpipe
Test Pipe
Stock RA catback Exhaust
294WHP/315WTQ
TORalliart on Evo X Stock turbo
10Sportback
Here are my #s with the EvoX turbo! 300 on the dot! I'm sure the number is not exactly 300 but close enough. Many thanks to Mitch from AMS!
badreligi0n
2009 Mitsubishi Ralliart - JordanTuned - 340hp / 340tq @ 26 PSI (Conservative to Protect SST)
Evo X Turbo Swap & LICP & BPV
ETS 3' Intercooler UR UICP & DownPipe
Custom Exhaust
Deatschwerks 800cc Injectors
Walbro 255 FP
FP 18 PSI Wastegate
Grimmspeed EBC
COBB Intake
**On E85**
AMS Ralliart on FP Red
hixlancer's RA On Blouch Dom 2.0
Razorlab's RA Sportback BBX Lite 91 oct
Last edited by SudzRA; Dec 5, 2011 at 01:55 PM.
Oct 1, 2011, 12:04 PM
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5) Further Informations
Info about the FP TD04 upgrade, courtesy of Eyedreamt
FP is able to upgrade a stock RA turbo to a 65mm HTA wheel with a 43 lb/min flow rate.
Here is the e-mail thread of my (Ryan, AKA Eyedreamt) conversation with Robert at FP for reference.
My Original e-mail:
Quote:
Roberts Response:
Quote:
My Response:
Quote:
Roberts Response:
Quote:
My Reply
Quote:
Robert's Reply
Quote:
Info about the FP TD04 upgrade, courtesy of Eyedreamt
FP is able to upgrade a stock RA turbo to a 65mm HTA wheel with a 43 lb/min flow rate.
Here is the e-mail thread of my (Ryan, AKA Eyedreamt) conversation with Robert at FP for reference.
My Original e-mail:
Quote:
Just curious if you have any plans to make a hybrid turbo out of the Mitsubishi Ralliart turbo (TD04HL-15T-7)? CBRD has done so and dubbed it the RAD Lite, however I wanted to see if you plan on, or if I provided my stock turbo, will create something similar?
Quote:
Ryan, we can do such a thing of course. If fact we have done it on a number of occasions, but the results do not equal the power from the stock non ralliart turbo system and in my observations isnt really very useful for that reason. I am unaware of any constraint anywhere that requires the ralliart owner to retain the tiny TD04 turbo in order to participate in racing, so abandoning the TD04HL is about the smartest decision you could make. Ok, so now that full disclosure has occurred I would be happy to make a tiny ralliart turbo a tiny bit bigger
Quote:
Robert,
Thank you for the quick reply. While I am aware that the TD04 is a tiny turbo and I could move up to a TD05/Evo X Stock housing based turbo, it would require the o2 housing, manifold, and quite a few other parts from an X. My other issue is intakes. The information I have found has indicated a Evo-X intake (aftermarket or stock) is needed to go that direction, and with that comes battery relocation or a small battery. I also kind of like the idea of doing something different. To be honest I have a relatively modest goal of 300 – 320 WHP… which seems doable upgrading the TD04… correct me if I am wrong.
I also know quite a few others on EvolutionM.net are looking to avoid going the X swap route and just want something bolt-on, tune, and go. While CBRD offers such a thing, they don’t list a price, and getting ahold of them is difficult. .... If FP were to offer a similar upgrade without the hassle, I believe the outcome would be beneficial to both FP and the community of Ralliart owners.
So what would be next steps to getting something like this started, and what do you think the overall costs would be? I have a spare TD04 I can ship to you to do some research on.
Thank You,
Ryan
Thank you for the quick reply. While I am aware that the TD04 is a tiny turbo and I could move up to a TD05/Evo X Stock housing based turbo, it would require the o2 housing, manifold, and quite a few other parts from an X. My other issue is intakes. The information I have found has indicated a Evo-X intake (aftermarket or stock) is needed to go that direction, and with that comes battery relocation or a small battery. I also kind of like the idea of doing something different. To be honest I have a relatively modest goal of 300 – 320 WHP… which seems doable upgrading the TD04… correct me if I am wrong.
I also know quite a few others on EvolutionM.net are looking to avoid going the X swap route and just want something bolt-on, tune, and go. While CBRD offers such a thing, they don’t list a price, and getting ahold of them is difficult. .... If FP were to offer a similar upgrade without the hassle, I believe the outcome would be beneficial to both FP and the community of Ralliart owners.
So what would be next steps to getting something like this started, and what do you think the overall costs would be? I have a spare TD04 I can ship to you to do some research on.
Thank You,
Ryan
Quote:
Ok, there isnt any research that needs to be done, the programs are already written for the wheels and the cover recontour. Sned it over and we'll do one up for you. If the core is good we will go a billet HTA upgrade for $795. It is a 65mm HTA wheel with a 43 lb/min flow rate that. This is the same wheel we use in the twin 997 aplication which normally operates around 700whp in the P-cars. Robert
Quote:
Robert,
Sounds good to me. Will there be any work done to the actuator? I know this thing runs out of breath on the top end and from what I’ve read that should address that issue… again, I’m just going off what I’ve read, you’re the expert, not me.
Where can I send the turbo? Should I send it, let you take a look to make sure we’re good to go, then make payment, or do you require payment up-front?
Thanks,
Ryan
Sounds good to me. Will there be any work done to the actuator? I know this thing runs out of breath on the top end and from what I’ve read that should address that issue… again, I’m just going off what I’ve read, you’re the expert, not me.
Where can I send the turbo? Should I send it, let you take a look to make sure we’re good to go, then make payment, or do you require payment up-front?
Thanks,
Ryan
Quote:
of course it runs out of breath on the top end, its a itsy bitsy turbo with a itsy bitsy turbine housing and a itsy bitsy turbine housing on a motor that deserves so much more. No payment until the work is done use the turbocharger check in sheet from the turbocharger rebuild section of the website. I dont have any updated actuators for that turbo, honestly it wouldnt do a whole lot besides make it easier to destroy the turbo with overspeed since it is so small.
Last edited by SudzRA; Nov 16, 2011 at 02:38 PM.
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Oct 1, 2011, 08:26 PM
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Oct 2, 2011, 05:20 AM
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Shouldn't we add this link here? I know it is for an EvoX to Garret swap, but these are the only instrucitons I found and they were helpful for me.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...tions_RevA.pdf
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...tions_RevA.pdf
Oct 3, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Good stuff. I hope more newbies read this instead of starting new threads.
Here is my car with the Evo X turbo upgrade on razorlab's dyno. Good comparison with his BBX lite. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-10-turbo.html Stock RAs do about 190-195WHP on razorlab's dyno.
Here is my car with the Evo X turbo upgrade on razorlab's dyno. Good comparison with his BBX lite. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-10-turbo.html Stock RAs do about 190-195WHP on razorlab's dyno.
Oct 3, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Good stuff. I hope more newbies read this instead of starting new threads.
Here is my car with the Evo X turbo upgrade on razorlab's dyno. Good comparison with his BBX lite. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-10-turbo.html Stock RAs do about 190-195WHP on razorlab's dyno.
Here is my car with the Evo X turbo upgrade on razorlab's dyno. Good comparison with his BBX lite. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/09...-10-turbo.html Stock RAs do about 190-195WHP on razorlab's dyno.