Blew up with AEM? Anyone else.......
Originally Posted by Pruven
Good luck in Puerto Rico. I'll definitly be watching to see how it goes, Hopefully I'll be able to send you a congrats. I would like to apologize to everyone for this crazy stuff being posted on here but there are a few choice individulas who don't quit and are directly attacking us so we have to defend ourselves. I have since put Kenny on leash for now. So here it is:
The motor in question was a motor that was brought here for a head gasket repair. We then found piston damage. THE CAR DROVE HERE. The customer didn't want to spend any money and he didn't even want to replace any bearing, but 2 of them were in not the best shape, so we called the customer, He said to replace the 2. Obviously if the guy didn't want to pay for $25 rod bearings he most certainly didn't want to pull his crankshaft to just check it, again the car drove here. If he had a bent crank before he came here, then thats what he left herewith. Mark you even said that you have seen bone stock motors be .010" out of round to me on the phone. He did not want to pull out the motor or anything that went above and beyond the obvious repair. AGAIN THE CAR DROVE HERE, THE CAR DROVE OUT OF HERE FOR 1500 MILES! Then it went to Turbo Trix. 4 hour later and the rest is history. By the way, out of your own mouth Marc, you said " the motor was noisy and the tune that was in there was horrible" (which was done by some other shop). You said "I got the motor to quiet down by pulling out alot of timing". If there was a mechanical problem with bearings, no amount of timing would quiet it down. I would love to see those pistons that came out of his motor. They have our job number stamped in it from ARIAS so we know if their ours. Or are they lost or maybe even stolen, just like juan's car?
The problem here is that we never got a chance to look at this customers car. If this problem happened to in the reverse way, I would give you a call and welcome you to come down and inspect it ( at least then I would have). You never gave me that courtesy nor did the customer. Insurance companys don't pay a claim unless they inspect it first, it's just smart business practice otherwise you will get taken adavntage of. If you read the link the Intellectual EZPASS set up you can see the whole story there. Just read it. Why don't you get a legitimate claim, grow up, and stop hi-jacking this thread.
Dan @ Pruven
The motor in question was a motor that was brought here for a head gasket repair. We then found piston damage. THE CAR DROVE HERE. The customer didn't want to spend any money and he didn't even want to replace any bearing, but 2 of them were in not the best shape, so we called the customer, He said to replace the 2. Obviously if the guy didn't want to pay for $25 rod bearings he most certainly didn't want to pull his crankshaft to just check it, again the car drove here. If he had a bent crank before he came here, then thats what he left herewith. Mark you even said that you have seen bone stock motors be .010" out of round to me on the phone. He did not want to pull out the motor or anything that went above and beyond the obvious repair. AGAIN THE CAR DROVE HERE, THE CAR DROVE OUT OF HERE FOR 1500 MILES! Then it went to Turbo Trix. 4 hour later and the rest is history. By the way, out of your own mouth Marc, you said " the motor was noisy and the tune that was in there was horrible" (which was done by some other shop). You said "I got the motor to quiet down by pulling out alot of timing". If there was a mechanical problem with bearings, no amount of timing would quiet it down. I would love to see those pistons that came out of his motor. They have our job number stamped in it from ARIAS so we know if their ours. Or are they lost or maybe even stolen, just like juan's car?
The problem here is that we never got a chance to look at this customers car. If this problem happened to in the reverse way, I would give you a call and welcome you to come down and inspect it ( at least then I would have). You never gave me that courtesy nor did the customer. Insurance companys don't pay a claim unless they inspect it first, it's just smart business practice otherwise you will get taken adavntage of. If you read the link the Intellectual EZPASS set up you can see the whole story there. Just read it. Why don't you get a legitimate claim, grow up, and stop hi-jacking this thread.
Dan @ Pruven
You would have to ask juan for the pistons , as he has them. The rods had to be reconditioned, We have the crank + the bearings left ... Im glad to see there is end in sight for this thread. I too had the same scenario with rick, i never had the chance to look at his car .. to figure out what happend. Juans car was babied for 2 days not 1500 miles. You can run a car with an out of round crank, basically dan its like a ticking time bomb. Add some boost , and the problem escalates 10 fold. Whatever worked out with juan is your business, i just know he was out an evo an had said to me he would never of agreed to just slap a motor back together knowing full well it would come apart soon there after. Non the less its water under the bridge right dan ?
Mark
turbotrix
p.s. You can visit carrito.net to see how our car is doing in PR.. It would be nice to get some State side support.
I sincerly hope that i dont have to spend another night posting up in response to your camp making accusations of what i did / didnt do.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 217
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From: Milford, CT
Originally Posted by techause
Um... Dan, you say you take care of your customers 100%??? Well, since my car got tuned at your shop, my car needs new tires from all the driving I've done!!! LOL!! So, I expect new tires, ASAP..OK. This thread is so damn amusing!! It does have some good info...in between all the drama, that is. Keep up the good work. 
-John
-John
Glad to see you sold your AEM. Thanks for the comic relief
Dan @ Pruven
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Because even properly calibrated (which is really difficult to do in the first place), they aren't the engine-saving devices that people hope they are. They are reactive and don't intervene until detonation has already occured. Yes, they can be tuned to be very sensitive but then one gets into the situation where they are pulling back timing without the presence of real knock. It's probably a better idea to tune and test with the knock sensor off. Then later activate it and then, over the course of time, make the knock control system increasingly sensitive until you start feeling excessive knock retard during normal driving. Of course, the definition of "excessive knock retard" will vary from person to person. And those who actually use det cans will probably have the best idea of what is going on.
Just my 2c,
shiv
Just my 2c,
shiv
To me saying that knock protection is not a cure all is like saying that rubbers don't prevent against ALL STD's - sure thats true. But they cut down the risk. You still use one - just like knock control - becuase its prudent to take precautions.
Assuming that the tuner has carefully calibrated the tune to run knock free under all desired operating conditions and loads, would NOT a knock control system act as a back up measure in the event of human error or other unforseen conditions?
Even though it is REACTIVE - is it not better to have the ecu pull back timing and add fuel after a knock reading than have the ecu do NOTHING and continue the knock?
Ecu systems have become so fast at adjusting knock - e.g. Subaru that Fuji Heavy Industries has a patented system of ignition adjustment that relies on the ecu listening to knock and adjusting the timing on the fly. I know none of this is news to you.
Respectfully, you post has me most curious and I seek your input.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
To me saying that knock protection is not a cure all is like saying that rubbers don't prevent against ALL STD's - sure thats true. But they cut down the risk. You still use one - just like knock control - becuase its prudent to take precautions.
.
.
Mark
Turbotrix
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 217
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From: Milford, CT
Originally Posted by TurbotrixRacing
Dan..
You would have to ask juan for the pistons , as he has them. The rods had to be reconditioned, We have the crank + the bearings left ... Im glad to see there is end in sight for this thread. I too had the same scenario with rick, i never had the chance to look at his car .. to figure out what happend. Juans car was babied for 2 days not 1500 miles. You can run a car with an out of round crank, basically dan its like a ticking time bomb. Add some boost , and the problem escalates 10 fold. Whatever worked out with juan is your business, i just know he was out an evo an had said to me he would never of agreed to just slap a motor back together knowing full well it would come apart soon there after. Non the less its water under the bridge right dan ?
Mark
turbotrix
p.s. You can visit carrito.net to see how our car is doing in PR.. It would be nice to get some State side support.
I sincerly hope that i dont have to spend another night posting up in response to your camp making accusations of what i did / didnt do.
You would have to ask juan for the pistons , as he has them. The rods had to be reconditioned, We have the crank + the bearings left ... Im glad to see there is end in sight for this thread. I too had the same scenario with rick, i never had the chance to look at his car .. to figure out what happend. Juans car was babied for 2 days not 1500 miles. You can run a car with an out of round crank, basically dan its like a ticking time bomb. Add some boost , and the problem escalates 10 fold. Whatever worked out with juan is your business, i just know he was out an evo an had said to me he would never of agreed to just slap a motor back together knowing full well it would come apart soon there after. Non the less its water under the bridge right dan ?
Mark
turbotrix
p.s. You can visit carrito.net to see how our car is doing in PR.. It would be nice to get some State side support.
I sincerly hope that i dont have to spend another night posting up in response to your camp making accusations of what i did / didnt do.
Listen, this thread was about a tuner who toasted a few motors with his tuning, it sucks for you that its you. I can understand how you want to pass the buck on any one you can, but anyone with a bit of sense can see whats happening here.
Good luck to you in the future.
Dan @ Pruven
If I could say one thing it's this: 80% of the tuners who claim to properly tune an AEM EMS can't. It's really unfortunate, because I'm sure once the system is tuned properly it's great. So many people have had there $30,000 dollar cars turned into a mess.
When you buy an AEM do you say:
"The AEM is a great system, but to tune it right I'm going to need 2 hours on the dyno, about 3 hours driving it around and it's best you bring it here on the coldest day possible; otherwise your $30,000 car is going to take 6 seconds to crank, 5 minutes to warmup, put enough soot into the air to cause the extinction of 8 types of birds and get worse gas mileage than it did stock."
Fortunately, I have most of my problems fixed, minus the cold-start and a few small tweaks that need fixed. David has been very helpful, and I found someone about 5 hours closer who can help me fix the remaining issues.
It's unfortunate but things have finally came to light and I expect Mark has since changed his tuning protocols ("I don't use knock control" was the answer when I blew my motor) and now everyone he has tuned since apparently has it enabled (makes me wonder?) and hopefully he also has a better idea of the additional rigors that road/racing puts on your engine. Either way, your car should be tuned so it doesn't knock in any cirumstance. Your tuner shouldn't tune the car *if* you get a bad batch of gas, or abuse it, that it will detonate - it's just common sense. To give you an idea about "safety" the cold weather caused some major boost spiking for me, enough to boost spike to 23PSI and a datalog revealed ZERO volt's of knock because David tuned it properly.
And if any of you want to know why Rick and I were mad when we blew our motors - go price a rebuilt head and block.
Overall, the EMS was a mistake in my situation (and probably 90% of those who have it) but since I have it, I'm going to take a day off and get everything perfect. But honestly, I wouldn't trust 90% of the tuners out there. Thankfully, I met someone who is close to me and knows the system and tuning 110%, when I get tuned I'll help all of you who are in need of a tuner and don't have the time to drive a long way.
When you buy an AEM do you say:
"The AEM is a great system, but to tune it right I'm going to need 2 hours on the dyno, about 3 hours driving it around and it's best you bring it here on the coldest day possible; otherwise your $30,000 car is going to take 6 seconds to crank, 5 minutes to warmup, put enough soot into the air to cause the extinction of 8 types of birds and get worse gas mileage than it did stock."
Fortunately, I have most of my problems fixed, minus the cold-start and a few small tweaks that need fixed. David has been very helpful, and I found someone about 5 hours closer who can help me fix the remaining issues.
It's unfortunate but things have finally came to light and I expect Mark has since changed his tuning protocols ("I don't use knock control" was the answer when I blew my motor) and now everyone he has tuned since apparently has it enabled (makes me wonder?) and hopefully he also has a better idea of the additional rigors that road/racing puts on your engine. Either way, your car should be tuned so it doesn't knock in any cirumstance. Your tuner shouldn't tune the car *if* you get a bad batch of gas, or abuse it, that it will detonate - it's just common sense. To give you an idea about "safety" the cold weather caused some major boost spiking for me, enough to boost spike to 23PSI and a datalog revealed ZERO volt's of knock because David tuned it properly.
And if any of you want to know why Rick and I were mad when we blew our motors - go price a rebuilt head and block.
Overall, the EMS was a mistake in my situation (and probably 90% of those who have it) but since I have it, I'm going to take a day off and get everything perfect. But honestly, I wouldn't trust 90% of the tuners out there. Thankfully, I met someone who is close to me and knows the system and tuning 110%, when I get tuned I'll help all of you who are in need of a tuner and don't have the time to drive a long way.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 116
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From: milfort ct
Originally Posted by TurbotrixRacing
That is some analogy al ...
Mark
Turbotrix
Mark
Turbotrix
Al you should post some pics of your pistons to show how clean and detonation free they were at the end of the season(100% have to give it up to Al 1 season 1 motor)
btw i'm calm now
Originally Posted by Pruven
I can't consider anything under the bridge at this point. It really bothers me that I actually do not know what happened to my clients motor, but it seems we'll never get to the bottom of this...or maybe we will.... one day. No one asked Juan to slap a motor back together, he just didn't want to take out the crank. The reality was there really didn't seem to be a reason to. As you said "you can't see a crank .006" out of round by eye." Plus he drove it here. 2 bearings looked a little worn, but then again his pistons were also melted. Funny how you don't have the key ingrediant of this whole dilema, THE PISTONS. Why? Why isn't Juan selling them? Maybe because they are MELTED!!!!!!!!!
Listen, this thread was about a tuner who toasted a few motors with his tuning, it sucks for you that its you. I can understand how you want to pass the buck on any one you can, but anyone with a bit of sense can see whats happening here.
Good luck to you in the future.
Dan @ Pruven
Listen, this thread was about a tuner who toasted a few motors with his tuning, it sucks for you that its you. I can understand how you want to pass the buck on any one you can, but anyone with a bit of sense can see whats happening here.
Good luck to you in the future.
Dan @ Pruven
Thank you for wishing me luck in the future.. Maybe we'll see you at the track someday. You should def try and shoot for 10's with the evo. Its unfortunate that you've had such problems with the " clutch " and " turbos ". Good luck to you in the future
Mark
Turbotrix
Originally Posted by prostockCRX
very true at the same time.........ohh don't use a condom little bobby you only have a 5% chance of being infected with H.I.V. what Al is saying is that if all precautions are taken, the AEM CAN be a safe and reliable system.
Al you should post some pics of your pistons to show how clean and detonation free they were at the end of the season(100% have to give it up to Al 1 season 1 motor)
btw i'm calm now
Al you should post some pics of your pistons to show how clean and detonation free they were at the end of the season(100% have to give it up to Al 1 season 1 motor)
btw i'm calm now
Al has a camera that fits in the spark plug hole ? Al where did you get that, i'd like one .
Mark
Turbotrix
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 217
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From: Milford, CT
Originally Posted by TurbotrixRacing
Al has a camera that fits in the spark plug hole ? Al where did you get that, i'd like one .
Mark
Turbotrix
Mark
Turbotrix
For all to read. Especaily Marc, there are some nice highlights about bearings.
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html
Dan @ Pruven
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 116
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From: milfort ct
Originally Posted by TurbotrixRacing
Al has a camera that fits in the spark plug hole ? Al where did you get that, i'd like one .
Mark
Turbotrix
Mark
Turbotrix
Originally Posted by prostockCRX
yeah i do have a cam that goes right in the spark plug hole................i'm sure you have those laying around your shop, don't you mark???
No i dont .. but i did find a good link for you to check out ..
http://www.archaeologica.org/UsingCalipers.htm
Mark
turbotrix