So I searched through this Cobb AP section. It hasnt been the most helpful section so far. I have a 2012 GSR stock and am thinking of purchasing the AP because everyone keeps telling me I should get a tune. They say the factory tune it bad but can't give me reasons why the Mitsu engineers would manufacture and sell the car with a tune that is bad for it. Unless when they say "bad" they mean low on power "bad".

So I searched through this section trying to find out people's experience with the Cobb AP. A couple said they are happy they purchased it, but not many more. My questions are (and keep in mind my car is stock):

1) Is it worth the money and the small chance of voiding a warranty? If you feel its worth it, then why?

2) How are the maps for the 2012's? I was told they have "beta" maps. What exactly does that mean? I'm not really interested in having Cobb use my car as a test rat like the FDA uses us to test vaccines.

3) How does it increase hp or tq? Is it because the turbo engages sooner and runs to redline as opposed to the 3kish to 5kish? If this is true do I need to let my car warm up more in the morning since the turbo will engage under 3k (I usually keep it under 3K for awhile)? Also does this affect your MPG?

4) Why do people get "knock" sometimes with the Cobb flash? And why does it "knock" and specifically what does it mean?

Any help would be appreciated. As it stands right now I think I'm gonna hold off on the purchase until I feel more comfortable and find the answers I am looking for.

 

I got a cobb AP 2k miles in on my new evo.

I wasn't to worried about the warranty as Evos are a ***** to get warranty regardless.

You can always flash back to stock map when you need to take your car in, but I'm sure they can detect the ECU been modified if they wanted.

For basic warranty they won't touch your ecu, but if your engine blows or something you can bet they will look at your ECU.

It increases HP cause they raise the boost slightly and also tweak the timings alil bit.

You should never ragg/WOT the car before it is fully warmed up. Keep it under 3k until it gets to operating temp before full boosting. Ramping past 3k is still ok during warmup, just don't try to do it on purpose.

knock is a hit and miss cause the tune is off the shelf and not custom. some people are luckier then others. That's why a custom tune is preferred.

I ran my car with the AP for maybe 3-5k miles, I can't remember till I got full bolt ons and I sold the AP losing $100 and used the money I got back into a custom tune for $500.

 

You sound like you're very new to performance cars. I would read up about all the questions you asked, and learn the car inside and out in it's stock form before you start modding it. The AP is a great investment - but you should understand what you're doing before you add power :-)
Lots of info out there - check evoxforums as well for a much more active x community

 

Might be a good idea to find someone with an evo 9 who tuned thier car without too many mods and see how thiers is holding up? Or maybe you find someone with an evo X that has 80k miles already on thier car?

I don't know what the cobb ap tune does... but most people tune thier MIVEC tables to spool boost earlier.... lean our thier car to get more power... and change timing accordingly to also get more power.... . One thing everybody notices is that the Evo X is a very rich running vehicle from the factory. There' a whole lot more to it of course including many more things that are tunable. But I would guess every tune does at least that? BUT a stock evo x compared to a tuned one is 100% noticable. The additional pull\power is obvious. I'm no pro tuner but I've done a lot of homework and tuned my own car.

Guessing why Mitsubishi didn't tune the cars this way is a crap shoot. Most likely is a combination of warranty, emissions, gas mileage, and the politics that go on at an OEM?

If you want a guarantee that everything is warrantied then I'd keep everything stock. EVERYTHING. Maybe the one safe mod is to get an aftermarket panel filter which will lean out the car some and add some power. Then you can always put the OEM one back in when you take it to dealership.

 

I think the AP was absolutely worth it. I loved it on the RA and immediately got it for the evo when I went to the MR. I thought stage 1 was great and I like that it scaled to stage 2.

I also like that with their ATR software I was able to modify a map to remove the 1st gear SST torque limit and I like that I have a little diagnostic tool sitting in the car all of the time that can reflash, log, etc.

The above can also be accomplished using a laptop, cable and open source software if one preferred (I have the Tactrix cable also, but I like that Cobb produces and supports some off the shelf, "good enough" maps to get you going).

That said, there really isnt anything *wrong* with the evo X stock. Car forums are an extreme niche insane asylum in some ways where things are blown massively out of proportion. The vast majority of evos stay stock through the first owner and only start getting modded once handed down to the second or third.

The stock tune is conservative for reliability, durability and fuel efficiency.

If you're happy with the stock performance and want the most warranty assurance possible, leave it alone.

Mods are about a *desire to mod*, IMO, more than they are about the real gains. As a result "worth it" is much too subjective a question to ask and expect truly meaningful answers. "Worth it" to me != "worth it" to you necessarily.

 

How dare you accuse me of being new to performance!!!

I'm kidding. And you are correct

I did read through this Cobb sub-forum as well as a good part of the entire forum. I have a 2012 so not much has been discussed about the Cobb and the maps for the 2012. People also mention "knock" but don't really explain why and how it occurs with the Cobb AP. Or if the cars "knock" in the stock form.

People say they find the Cobb AP worth the money but a majority of them also have other bolt ons that I don't intend to purchase until out of warranty and probably until I have the car paid off as well.

You said that "The AP is a great investment - but you should understand what you're doing before you add power".
My interest in the Cobb AP is that I dont have to understand what I'm doing right? I mean I plug it in. I flash it to a stage 1 93 octane map. The car is then considered to have a better tune and give me better performance right?

If anyone has the AP on their stock 2012 do you find it worth the $500-$600? Are you ok with a Beta map? Do you have engine knock? And what map are you using?

 

What I meant wasn't with the tuning, I meant with the car. You're driving one of the fastest stock cars there is - maybe not always in a straight line, but on a real track, few other cars compare. You should learn the car, how it drives, etc, before you decide you need more power. After that, the AP stage 1 map would be fine, add 40 or so hp without any other mods, and have no issue.

Knock is when the fuel in the cylinder ignites when you dont want it to. Usually, this is from the cylinder being hot enough to ignite the fuel before the spark plug goes off. Knock is bad. Small amounts of knock, especially on our engines, just kinda happen sometimes. More than 1-2 count is not something you want though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking <- read this

Cobb is working on the 2012. There's no real changes to the car, so it will perform just like the 2011, 2010, 2008 did. They just change up the codes a bit to cobb has to rework their maps. They will be out soon, and you can pop it on if you'd like. Totally worth the money.

 

Thanks for the reply, link and explanation of knock.

I dont really find the car all that fast. It definitely has some "get up" to it. And I'm sure it is great on the track. But for everyday driving and considering how slow it is from 0-3k rpms, I dont find it too quick. I dont really intend to track it or anything.

The main reason I was thinking of the Cobb AP was because everyone has told me the car has a poor tune at stock. And if there is anything I do with the car, a tune of some sort is highly recommended. They have told me the Cobb AP will also help with that terrible 1-3rpm acceleration as well. Don't get me wrong, it would be great to get a little more hp out of it with the Cobb AP as well. Its just not my main concern.

As you said I am still also learning the car. But compared to other cars I have owned, this is one of the easiest cars to drive in my opinion. I had a 2000 Camaro Z-28 and an older Fox body Mustang. That Mustang was not pretty but man it was a beast. I remember taking a turn one time and I spun out and ended up in someones front yard (I was young and stupid). But this Evo has been one of the easiest cars to drive IMO. You just point in the direction and it goes. And I dont really go that fast anymore. I pretty much drive my cars like they are just a car. Nothing fancy about it.

I guess if the stock tune is a good tune and safe for the car I will keep it at that for now. It will also give Cobb time to get the 2012 maps out (none Beta).

 

I too have just gotten my 2012 Evo. Coming from years of being around the import scene the Cobb accessport is a great idea and worth a purchase. Once I get enough funds I know I will be getting one. Its really convenient to be able to flash one of the OTS (off the shelf) maps and go. It comes with the AccessTunerRacing program so you can modify those maps based on circumstances such as different brand parts, weather, etc. So, if you ever want to get further into tuning you can.

These cars are not really meant for just drag racing they are more of the take the mountain road turn at 70mph and still survive type of car. The car has no power on the low end under 3k cause its a 2.0 litre and majority of the time if you want better fuel economy try staying under 3k and out of boost range. That's the real purpose of any small motored turbocharged car to have fuel economy with the performance when you need it.

I found somewhere on the forums if you flash back to stock and unmarry the Accessport there is not ECU counter so the stealership wont find out. But, if you want to want to still keep warranty keep her stock. A drop in filter and catback exhaust should not void warranty. I have noticed anything over 350awhp is where people start really breaking parts but, also be aware any crappy custom tune can do this also. If you ever do get one, Stage one, drop in filter and a catback exhaust will give you some of the power you were looking for but still maintain the civility of a DD.

Good luck with your decision. Cobb should pay me for this advertisement lol.

 

1) Is it worth the money and the small chance of voiding a warranty? If you feel its worth it, then why?

A: Yes, I believe it is worth the money and potential risk of voiding the warranty. I have driven my 2011 stock GSR with the AP installed (Stage 1 93 Octane Tune) for about 2000 miles now with no issues.

- It is worth it (especially in states with 93 octane) because the stock car is tuned to run on 91 octane because of states that only have 91 octane such as CA. So this is one area where you can pull tangible power gain.

- Cobb has been around for a while and their off the shelf maps seem to be pretty reputable, with the only problems coming from people who install the AP without reading the directions or have improper mods.

-The car feels much smoother, especially in that 2000-3000 rpm range and above the 6000 rpm range. In stock form the car has no power below 3000 rpm and seems to lose power above 6000 rpm. With the AP you pretty much get power all the way through.

- I went over the warranty question with Cobb and they said that generally if you flash back to stock before your service appointments Mitsubishi will never be able to tell unless they ship the cars ECU out to an ECU specialist (Which is way above the equipment level found in local dealerships)

2) How are the maps for the 2012's? I was told they have "beta" maps. What exactly does that mean? I'm not really interested in having Cobb use my car as a test rat like the FDA uses us to test vaccines.

I used the 2011 beta maps and they have been fine. It is a beta map because the full range for that year has not been released. For example, with my 2011 GSR the USDM maps were done but the JDM or European versions were not. Cobb wouldn't release it if it wasn't safe. Their reputation relies on their users experiences.

3) How does it increase hp or tq? Is it because the turbo engages sooner and runs to redline as opposed to the 3kish to 5kish? If this is true do I need to let my car warm up more in the morning since the turbo will engage under 3k (I usually keep it under 3K for awhile)? Also does this affect your MPG?

-Raises boost (still within a safe range)... You have to figure that Mitsubishi has to take into consideration that some idiots will flog their car to the ends of the earth, which is why the factor tune might not be as aggressive as we would like. IMO a less tuned car helps eliminate the "stupidity" factor.

I look at it like the launch control on cars. Yes it's there and it's useable, but if you do 1000 launches in a row you're going to break something. So the Cobb AP is safe just use common sense.

-Can run a higher octance = more hp/tq

- Power comes in a little lower and reduces that lag before 3000 rpm

- I just start and drive my car and try to keep it below 3000 rpm until I see the temp gauge bar raise above the "C" level

- I find my MPG has actually increased s a bit since installing my Cobb Unlike with the stock tune, I am not forcing the car to be above 3000 rpm to get any power out of it. So running at a lower rpm seems to bring up the mpg during normal driving. If you drive it hard you're going to get crappy mpg regardless

4) Why do people get "knock" sometimes with the Cobb flash? And why does it "knock" and specifically what does it mean?

-Someone explained knock correctly in another post.

- I find most of the people who get knock are either

1) Running a smorgasbord of other mods along with the AP tune and something is not syncing correctly

2) Using an improper tune setting (e.g. running a 93 octane tune on 91 gas or running a 93 octane stage 2 tune without the proper exhaust system Cobb recommends)

3) Fooling around with the cars engine, modifying the tune themselves or doing something else that Cobb says not to do in their instructions


I sometimes get a few jitters in the car when driving in the cold staying around 2500 rpm because I believe that is about when the turbos start to spool up. I found I had this same issue driving with the car in stock tune as well though.

 

I have the Cobb on mine (running stage 2), we can meet up one of these days and ill give you a ride in the car so you can feel difference between the two. The cobb AP makes a world of difference from stock, almost like a brand new car. Not to mention you will get slightly better gas mileage, if you can keep your foot off the gas .

 

question ? can you use the ap with a macbook air laptop? ive used a dimsport tuner on my last vehicle and you couldnt use a apple computer to download etc. had to be pc.

 

System Requirements:
Windows: XP 32 (not 64bit), Vista (32 or 64bit) or Windows 7 (32 or 64bit)
OSX: 10.5 or 10.6 (on Intel machines only)

 

I just purchased a 2012 evo MR a month ago, i came from a bmw 335i and i felt that the evo was a bit slugish so i did some research and thought that cobb was the best choice for the mods i already have and what i would have in a few months. cobb to me is a generic conservative tune, it just made for either stock or turbo back exhaust with intake on some years, its not something specifically made for your car with the brand of parts you have its just generic. you will feel power gains over stock but you will get more power from a custom tune since it caters more to your specific mods on your car.
the thing that sold me on cobb was the fact that i can unmarry my cobb and the car will be back to its original stock form , it also has diffrent mods like economy, valet, security, etc. you can also go to a pro tuner to make you a custom tune for it with the mods you have if you dont want to use the generic off the shelf maps they offer.
maybe when i have more mods i will get a custom tune of get a custom map for my cobb but for my daily driving with few mods cobb is the best bang for the buck. u can also buy a used one for 400 bucks instead of getting a new one. and the beta maps are fine, the car has been out since 2008 so its not that "beta" at all.
Im currently running stage 2 93 oct., about the knock i dont understand much about it either but cobb said anything over 4 is bad while on 3rd gear at peak boost.

 

thank you kracka .