I had little problems.. such as leaky greddy type s... stock hoses has holes in them.. and some other similar ones

 

There is no need to ditch the dynoflash. It's able to work just as well as stand alone. The only down fall is it's not owner adjustable like stand alone.

 

There was a kid on the bored who had a flash, a cat-back and a manual boost controller who ran a 12.6 at 112. Unfortunately i dont' remember his name. But if you ad that up, we're talking about just about $1,000.

 

but lets stop the sh_t talking now and you guys can get back on topic

 

I guess I can't take a weekend off from the internet When I do all hell breaks loose.

Kevin (owner of the car),

Al called me while he was dyno'ing the car and told me what kind of power it was making. I told him it was low. I then asked him what parts were on the car. He gave me a basic run down. I asked him a bunch of other things that could contribute to the "low" power.

Let me make sure everyone understands what we do hear at Buschur Racing. We start with a stock car and build on it from there. We do what needs to be done to make power in a particular order and keep building on a platform. This is why we have Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3 etc......

On your car you have:

Our 3" downpipe/offroad pipe
Gauge pod
FMIC
Boost controller
Turbo kit

The parts that were on our car when we dyno'd/developed the BR500 kit and made 505 whp on a FWD dyno were this (all Buschur Racing brand parts of course):

Air filter kit
MAS pipe kit
Upper i/c pipe kit and BOV
Battery kit
Full 3" turbo back with no cat.
FMIC kit
HKS 264 cams
Intank fuel pump
660 cc injectors
Ported cylinder head
Coil on plug ignition
AEM CDI ignition
AEM EMS standalone fuel management
118 octane racing fuel

Couple of hours of tuning by about the best EMS tuner anywhere.

In other words we had our recommended upgrade path on the car and then a little extra. It is all clear on this forum and others what parts we had. This made 505 whp. The spool up on the turbo was great. Even with the BR580 on cars that have come through here and our own we can make 20 psi by 3800 rpm.

The entire process of making good horsepower and spool up is a matter of combination. Mix matching parts is tough.

The 412 hp that you made with a lot less parts than we have and a flash doesn't seem that bad. Yes, I would have expected more BUT I have also seen huge gains using the EMS. As a matter of fact you will find that all these 390+ hp cars on the stock turbos were done with the EMS.

We never tried running these big kits through the MAS and with the tuning methods that are available with the stock computer. We have dyno'd them, BR440, 500 and 580 only with the AEM EMS.

I would do a couple of things to your car. Number one would be to check for some leaks, number two would be get rid of the stock upper pipe and bov and then replace the MAS pipe that you have with our filter kit and MAS pipe.

If the boost in the car is holding steady then you probably don't have a leak and the wastegate actuator rod doesn't need to be tightened. Those rods are pre-set here and I can't imagine it being too loose. This would greatly effect spool up if it was NOT tight though.

The EMS has proven to not only make more power than trying to suck through the MAS but it has also greatly increased the spool up. On a BR580 car that we did for a customer he was really disapointed in the kit, spool up sucked, power wasn't that great etc. etc. He came back down to us and we threw the stock computer and MAS in his trunk and put the EMS on the car. FIXED. Happy as hell after that. Couldn't wipe the smile off his face.

The more cars I see trying to run big turbos and make good streetable power the more I see the MAS being a restriction and more advanced tuning being needed.

Az3ar,
As you can see from my post there are A LOT more things than just a turbo that can cause lag.

Mark French,
As you can hopefully see now there is also more to lag than a turbo choice and they can all effect MPH. I mean if you shoot a big *** turbo with a 150 shot of nitrous like you guys do then of course it will spool up better. Also the timing vs. race gas point that you made is way off as the guys fro Vishnu were more politely trying to point out also. I am glad you aren't tuning my car with those kind of thoughts. The only way the race gas being put in the car instead of his "96" octane that he had would further advance the timing is if the car was actually seeing knock on the "96" octane. I am sure you knew that though as you are the "great" tuner of the EMS, or so you keep telling us all.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

i remember about that one but lets not leave out his 75shot that help bring him there

 

It's also important to note here just how well Robert Fuller is doing out in California road racing with our BR500. Additionally, during the most recent Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car event, the BR500 was reviewed as one of the most linear and driveable they had the experience of driving. That says a lot for the potential of that setup. We unbolted the the BR500 turbo kit from our shop Evo (which I beat into absolute submission on the dyno) and sent it out to Robi to keep with his race schedule. Robi has been tearing up road race courses with that very same BR500 ever since... this just isn't possible with a laggy, unresponsive turbo. Go here to see a video clip of Robert doing AWD donuts with 265 series road race tires on the BR500:

http://www.buschurracing.com/media_page1.html

I'd say there's plenty of power there!

Keep in mind also, this car hasn't even had the opportunity to be re-tuned... it's running on a calibration I made at my desk and emailed to Robert so he could make his event with the turbo.

Getting back to the problem at hand... I'm not sure what is contributing to the lag issue here, but I can say that there is definately a problem... this is not the way the BR500 performs with our combinations.

 

I honestly dont know what your talking about. As you may or may not know, there are mutiple maps for ignition in the evo. I said ..if he ran the race gas it would stay in the primary ignition map that al had set. But the car would run richer. And no we are not running a 150 shot in our car .. ( guess again ) and it went 10.5 off the bottle @ 135.. Not too much lag on that one... Ahhh and also find me a thread that i called myself the " great " tuner of ems, i would love to see it....

Mark
Turbotrix

 

Evo8,

I would recommend checking for leaks all along the intake path and the exhaust path. Any leak in any spot along the intake or exhaust would cause a decrease in spoolup and lag response. Also, possibly take off your BOV and pressure test it.

I never knew my Type-S BOV leaked at 10psi until I had it off the car and tested it. The turbo would still boost all the way to 25+ no problem, so I never knew anything was wrong. But when I tested it it only held 10 psi and it was leaking from the center nut. I just put some RTV around the center washer/nut and not it holds past 30psi no problem and it helped my spoolup by a few hundred RPMs.

Also, since you just had the kit installed (I'm not sure if you did it or not), but any leak in the manifold at the head or the turbine opening will cause bad response and loss in spoolup, too. I would just recommend checking every connection in the intake and exhaust and also double-check your BOV.

Eric

 

If the lag is really bad, and you have an internal gate, you should make sure that the wastegate flapper is seating properly with the turbine housing. Is the wastegate rod adjustable? If it is, adjust it so that the wastegate actuator arm has a little tension on it.

A mis-seated wastegate flapper will cause HUGE lag issues.

 

I don't quite understand how the factory MAF is the cause of such lag. It is not restrictive at the least. Look in it. We've done boost response testing with and without the MAF in place and found, as expected, zero difference is boost threshold. Besides, even if the engine ran a 32mm inlet restrictor (like most of the rally cars that we tune), low end boost response wouldn't be compromised. As someone else pointed out, the inlet restriction wouldn't be a restriction until mass airflow reached a certain "critical value" above which it would be choked. Below that critical value (at low mass airflows, ie. during spool-up), there would be no compromise to boost response. Of course, this is all a moot point since the MAF does not behave like a 32mm inlet restrictor

The only advantage of the AEM, as far as power goes, is its ability to (re)define your own knock control sensitivity settings (threshold, rate of retard, rate of adv. max retard and rpm above which knock control is inhibited). That is, you can run the car with as much or as little safety margin against knock as you want. There is no other secret sauce in the AEM that accounts for any real or perceived power gains over any other adequate forms of engine control. We are just controlling fuel injector on-times and spark advance afterall.

Please note that I don't want to comment about the merits of controlling a big turbo set-up with just a reflash (which can only be mapped up to 21-22psi). Instead, I'm just commenting on the arguments regarding MAFs and their impact on boost lag.

Just my 2c,
Shiv

 

If the rod is adjusted such that it is so long that the wastegate actuator cannot clamp the flapper closed, that will have a very significant influence on transient boost lag.

 

Well that wouldn't be preload, would it?

 

Mark is a great tuner.im sure that there are alot of good tuners, but around here in nj mark is the best at tuning the ems,thats why people are comming from all over to get him to tune their cars ,420

 

im not sure what the issue is...i talked to david b himself for about 25 min on the phone and we were trying to think of things that coudl be going on......from what he explained to me....the wastegate, i think, is adjusted right.....i might need a second opinion, also the mas pipe tapers to a 2.25' to the turbo and the buschur map is 3' i believe, also i need to get rid of the damn upper intercooler pipe and that mesh shi*......im gonna reset my computer and run 100 octane wed nihgt and try to shift the hell out of it, we watched my video of the runs and i have long gaps in between shifts, badly, so i think with a little harder shifting and finish off the buschur stage 5 i should be in the 11.s.....i also was on the stock BOV on these runs as well........thanks guys.....