DynoFlash or DynoTrash? You be the judge!
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Originally Posted by boomn29
We all appreciate writeups. I for one would rather hear good news than bad news with anything Evo related!
Are you an Evo owner?
Are you a dynoflash customer? If not, why were you there?
Just curious and all...
Are you an Evo owner?
Are you a dynoflash customer? If not, why were you there?
Just curious and all...
He would have never thought about the race gas map he left on the utec, or the fact there was no logging going on, or the effect c16 has when added to the car with no tuning etc..
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Arroyo Grande, CA
When I went down to LA for one of Al's Dynoflash days, I bought a base flash from him. When we did the road test, he kept looking at my Apex Boost gauge (BAR) and said that my boost is too low and to turn it up. Run after run, he kept telling me to turn up the boost. Basically, I had turned it up to about 1.6 bar before he noticed that my gauge read in bar! I couldn't see the gauge from the passenger seat, so I trusted his jugdement. He said in front of everyone that my car felt like it had 280whp w/ my cone filter and mbc!
The rudeness that people say Al portrays is true. I drove 2.5 hrs for the meet for my scheduled flash, and he made me wait another 2 hrs after my scheduled slot to receive my 5 minute reflash.
Before my flash Al made one guy remove his o2 sensor for the WB. The guy was having a little trouble with the removal (didn't know his lefty loosies, righty tighties) and Al was saying some pretty rude stuff about the guy behind his back. His professionalism gets a huge thumbs down. Especially when I saw him throw his OBDII scanner on a customer's dash.
The rudeness that people say Al portrays is true. I drove 2.5 hrs for the meet for my scheduled flash, and he made me wait another 2 hrs after my scheduled slot to receive my 5 minute reflash.
Before my flash Al made one guy remove his o2 sensor for the WB. The guy was having a little trouble with the removal (didn't know his lefty loosies, righty tighties) and Al was saying some pretty rude stuff about the guy behind his back. His professionalism gets a huge thumbs down. Especially when I saw him throw his OBDII scanner on a customer's dash.
For what it's worth, my car is the black evo that imprezivr6 is talking about (sorry dude I forgot your name). Pretty much everything he said is true, however it is HIS OPINION of what happened that night. I want to clear up what happened with MY CAR so that no one gets only one side of the story.
I went to Pruven to get my car retuned. Previously, I had a 3'' turboback with high flow cat, walbro fuel pump, k&n drop-in filter, and an mbc. On the pruven dynoet, I made 297 whp 315 wtrq. I added a test pipe and 264/264 cams as per Al's advice and was expecting something like 320 whp on pump gas and 340 on C16.
The car felt strong before the retune, but Al was offering a C16 tune as well as a pump gas tune so I decided to see what the car would make on C16 and have it ready for the shootout at ETown. When the car rolled onto the dyno, everything seemed ok. Until I saw the dyno sheet after 4 runs. 303 whp! Al said he thought my car was weak, even when I told him that I had made only 6 hp less without the cams and test pipe. He said that we should continue and do the race gas tune, and the techs at Pruven put in the race gas. They did one run at 25 psi and came back with a dyno sheet. 304 whp! They said that the boost was hitting 25 psi and falling straight to 21 until redline, and that the stock bov was leaking. My thoughts are that the a/f was over a point richer in some places, resulting in the low power on C16 even with more boost. However, Al told me that the car was seeing more airflow, but there was something mechanically wrong if 25 psi didn't result in any additional hp.
So the car came off the dyno and a vacuum pressure test was done to see if their were any boost leaks. Turns out one of the caps I had put on a nipple on the turbo during the mbc install had blown off. So there was atleast one boost leak. I talked to Al about continueing the tuning now that the boost leak was fixed, even if it had to be off the dyno. I wanted to atleast do a race gas street tune so that I could be ready for the shootout.
Then I watched as two other cars got on the dyno and it started to get late. Al told me to wait and try to get the situation resolved, so I did. I ended up talking to Al and Dan later that night, after watching two unscheduled cars get on the dyno. I was told by Al that their was no way I was getting on the dyno that night, as Dan felt that there was a bigger issue than a boost leak on my car that was resulting in the low power. I also talked to Dan, and he offered to diagnose my car to see what was wrong with it. Al even offered a free retune.
I want to say that I believe Dan at Pruven and Al when they say that there is some issue with my car besides the boost leak. I will be taking it back for diagnostics and the aforemetioned free retune. I think that the issues are mechanical (obviously a leaking bov, etc.) and that the tuning was not to blame. If the a/f was at 11.3 and I only made 303 whp on pump gas, the tuning can't be blamed. I do not blame Al for the results and will take up his offer on the free retune. I did not originally want to take this to the forums, because I know what happens when things like this do show up. Everyone loves to point fingers and the fanboys come out to bash whichever side they aren't on. Sorry about the length of this post, but I just wanted to give both sides of the story.
I went to Pruven to get my car retuned. Previously, I had a 3'' turboback with high flow cat, walbro fuel pump, k&n drop-in filter, and an mbc. On the pruven dynoet, I made 297 whp 315 wtrq. I added a test pipe and 264/264 cams as per Al's advice and was expecting something like 320 whp on pump gas and 340 on C16.
The car felt strong before the retune, but Al was offering a C16 tune as well as a pump gas tune so I decided to see what the car would make on C16 and have it ready for the shootout at ETown. When the car rolled onto the dyno, everything seemed ok. Until I saw the dyno sheet after 4 runs. 303 whp! Al said he thought my car was weak, even when I told him that I had made only 6 hp less without the cams and test pipe. He said that we should continue and do the race gas tune, and the techs at Pruven put in the race gas. They did one run at 25 psi and came back with a dyno sheet. 304 whp! They said that the boost was hitting 25 psi and falling straight to 21 until redline, and that the stock bov was leaking. My thoughts are that the a/f was over a point richer in some places, resulting in the low power on C16 even with more boost. However, Al told me that the car was seeing more airflow, but there was something mechanically wrong if 25 psi didn't result in any additional hp.
So the car came off the dyno and a vacuum pressure test was done to see if their were any boost leaks. Turns out one of the caps I had put on a nipple on the turbo during the mbc install had blown off. So there was atleast one boost leak. I talked to Al about continueing the tuning now that the boost leak was fixed, even if it had to be off the dyno. I wanted to atleast do a race gas street tune so that I could be ready for the shootout.
Then I watched as two other cars got on the dyno and it started to get late. Al told me to wait and try to get the situation resolved, so I did. I ended up talking to Al and Dan later that night, after watching two unscheduled cars get on the dyno. I was told by Al that their was no way I was getting on the dyno that night, as Dan felt that there was a bigger issue than a boost leak on my car that was resulting in the low power. I also talked to Dan, and he offered to diagnose my car to see what was wrong with it. Al even offered a free retune.
I want to say that I believe Dan at Pruven and Al when they say that there is some issue with my car besides the boost leak. I will be taking it back for diagnostics and the aforemetioned free retune. I think that the issues are mechanical (obviously a leaking bov, etc.) and that the tuning was not to blame. If the a/f was at 11.3 and I only made 303 whp on pump gas, the tuning can't be blamed. I do not blame Al for the results and will take up his offer on the free retune. I did not originally want to take this to the forums, because I know what happens when things like this do show up. Everyone loves to point fingers and the fanboys come out to bash whichever side they aren't on. Sorry about the length of this post, but I just wanted to give both sides of the story.
This is why I have to respect my customers who do thier research into what parts work and really want to learn how to make thier cars faster. When you can understand your own setup and why it is or isn't working you are so ahead in the game.
Maybe that flash "tuning" and dyno time money would be better spent on a wideband and an obd2 logger/palm. An AFC is not rocket science to tune. At the VERY least you are getting actual parts that have a resale value rather than an non-tangable product that may or may not be doing anything.
Anyway....tuning cars with mehanical issues/boost leaks ect is a complete waste of time. Once the leak/issue is fixed...the tuning is out the window.
Maybe that flash "tuning" and dyno time money would be better spent on a wideband and an obd2 logger/palm. An AFC is not rocket science to tune. At the VERY least you are getting actual parts that have a resale value rather than an non-tangable product that may or may not be doing anything.
Anyway....tuning cars with mehanical issues/boost leaks ect is a complete waste of time. Once the leak/issue is fixed...the tuning is out the window.
I heard something like that before. AEM Tuning is what I like. Very good. ECU flash is somewhat of a hack job, i think. But Some people like it and I honestly they do work.
Standalone vs the piggyback is the topic I believe. I think standalone is great, but costly, piggyback is limited but cheap.
It's up to each person to decide on what they want. But we shouldn't flame, since when have you done anything to help the import industry? lol.
Standalone vs the piggyback is the topic I believe. I think standalone is great, but costly, piggyback is limited but cheap.
It's up to each person to decide on what they want. But we shouldn't flame, since when have you done anything to help the import industry? lol.
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Originally Posted by rebelzx
For what it's worth, my car is the black evo that imprezivr6 is talking about (sorry dude I forgot your name). Pretty much everything he said is true, however it is HIS OPINION of what happened that night. I want to clear up what happened with MY CAR so that no one gets only one side of the story.
I went to Pruven to get my car retuned. Previously, I had a 3'' turboback with high flow cat, walbro fuel pump, k&n drop-in filter, and an mbc. On the pruven dynoet, I made 297 whp 315 wtrq. I added a test pipe and 264/264 cams as per Al's advice and was expecting something like 320 whp on pump gas and 340 on C16.
The car felt strong before the retune, but Al was offering a C16 tune as well as a pump gas tune so I decided to see what the car would make on C16 and have it ready for the shootout at ETown. When the car rolled onto the dyno, everything seemed ok. Until I saw the dyno sheet after 4 runs. 303 whp! Al said he thought my car was weak, even when I told him that I had made only 6 hp less without the cams and test pipe. He said that we should continue and do the race gas tune, and the techs at Pruven put in the race gas. They did one run at 25 psi and came back with a dyno sheet. 304 whp! They said that the boost was hitting 25 psi and falling straight to 21 until redline, and that the stock bov was leaking. My thoughts are that the a/f was over a point richer in some places, resulting in the low power on C16 even with more boost. However, Al told me that the car was seeing more airflow, but there was something mechanically wrong if 25 psi didn't result in any additional hp.
So the car came off the dyno and a vacuum pressure test was done to see if their were any boost leaks. Turns out one of the caps I had put on a nipple on the turbo during the mbc install had blown off. So there was atleast one boost leak. I talked to Al about continueing the tuning now that the boost leak was fixed, even if it had to be off the dyno. I wanted to atleast do a race gas street tune so that I could be ready for the shootout.
Then I watched as two other cars got on the dyno and it started to get late. Al told me to wait and try to get the situation resolved, so I did. I ended up talking to Al and Dan later that night, after watching two unscheduled cars get on the dyno. I was told by Al that their was no way I was getting on the dyno that night, as Dan felt that there was a bigger issue than a boost leak on my car that was resulting in the low power. I also talked to Dan, and he offered to diagnose my car to see what was wrong with it. Al even offered a free retune.
I want to say that I believe Dan at Pruven and Al when they say that there is some issue with my car besides the boost leak. I will be taking it back for diagnostics and the aforemetioned free retune. I think that the issues are mechanical (obviously a leaking bov, etc.) and that the tuning was not to blame. If the a/f was at 11.3 and I only made 303 whp on pump gas, the tuning can't be blamed. I do not blame Al for the results and will take up his offer on the free retune. I did not originally want to take this to the forums, because I know what happens when things like this do show up. Everyone loves to point fingers and the fanboys come out to bash whichever side they aren't on. Sorry about the length of this post, but I just wanted to give both sides of the story.
I went to Pruven to get my car retuned. Previously, I had a 3'' turboback with high flow cat, walbro fuel pump, k&n drop-in filter, and an mbc. On the pruven dynoet, I made 297 whp 315 wtrq. I added a test pipe and 264/264 cams as per Al's advice and was expecting something like 320 whp on pump gas and 340 on C16.
The car felt strong before the retune, but Al was offering a C16 tune as well as a pump gas tune so I decided to see what the car would make on C16 and have it ready for the shootout at ETown. When the car rolled onto the dyno, everything seemed ok. Until I saw the dyno sheet after 4 runs. 303 whp! Al said he thought my car was weak, even when I told him that I had made only 6 hp less without the cams and test pipe. He said that we should continue and do the race gas tune, and the techs at Pruven put in the race gas. They did one run at 25 psi and came back with a dyno sheet. 304 whp! They said that the boost was hitting 25 psi and falling straight to 21 until redline, and that the stock bov was leaking. My thoughts are that the a/f was over a point richer in some places, resulting in the low power on C16 even with more boost. However, Al told me that the car was seeing more airflow, but there was something mechanically wrong if 25 psi didn't result in any additional hp.
So the car came off the dyno and a vacuum pressure test was done to see if their were any boost leaks. Turns out one of the caps I had put on a nipple on the turbo during the mbc install had blown off. So there was atleast one boost leak. I talked to Al about continueing the tuning now that the boost leak was fixed, even if it had to be off the dyno. I wanted to atleast do a race gas street tune so that I could be ready for the shootout.
Then I watched as two other cars got on the dyno and it started to get late. Al told me to wait and try to get the situation resolved, so I did. I ended up talking to Al and Dan later that night, after watching two unscheduled cars get on the dyno. I was told by Al that their was no way I was getting on the dyno that night, as Dan felt that there was a bigger issue than a boost leak on my car that was resulting in the low power. I also talked to Dan, and he offered to diagnose my car to see what was wrong with it. Al even offered a free retune.
I want to say that I believe Dan at Pruven and Al when they say that there is some issue with my car besides the boost leak. I will be taking it back for diagnostics and the aforemetioned free retune. I think that the issues are mechanical (obviously a leaking bov, etc.) and that the tuning was not to blame. If the a/f was at 11.3 and I only made 303 whp on pump gas, the tuning can't be blamed. I do not blame Al for the results and will take up his offer on the free retune. I did not originally want to take this to the forums, because I know what happens when things like this do show up. Everyone loves to point fingers and the fanboys come out to bash whichever side they aren't on. Sorry about the length of this post, but I just wanted to give both sides of the story.
I was getting very aggrevated mostly with your situation. I did not like how you were treated and dissmissed like you knew nothing when you were right on with what you were saying.. Just sat there on his Pc saying "well your car is just a weak one" and not even interested into finding the problem.. I know if i was a tuner and i THOUGHT the bpv was leaking i would rip the one off my car and slap it on yours..
You made 303whp with your boost falling, AFR's were in check but when you lose 2-3 psi up top(power peak) your numbers are going to be low.. We both know i was ready to pull off the bov on Eriks car to help you, i wanted to see you make the power you came to make.. I dont think your problem is as serious as you think, anny open leak like that is going to cause problems, you may have another but an open vac line like that is definetly a problem.. i would think the Leaking BPV and open line were the culprits of your problem..
You handled yourself very professionaly and i understand that becuase you want to get your car retuned like you paid for.. I wish you good luck with getting your money's worth, but i hope you learn from this situation..
Dave-
Very nice write up. I knew that this was coming as I have been through the same path with AL. I just did not know that it would come that fast. Good luck everyone and god be with your EVOS 
Originally Posted by plokivos
all shop owners are dicks. F it, i'm gonna open up my own shop and finally treat people right, like family. lol.
there are many shop owners that are great people and that will jump through hoops to make their costumers happy....
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Originally Posted by Az3ar
Good luck everyone and god be with your EVOS
Hey guys, i was just doing some reading and came across this.. This really shows his arrogance, and lack of work ethic:
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Maybe you can time your mods to coincidce with my next vist to AMS - which i am going to try for mid May?
I just can't beleive how good this guy's car is running - I literally created his base map out of my head in about 5 mins when i was at AMS - he had some injectors, cams and head work which we had no base map for so I was just trying to get him something to use to drive down the road - not something to rival the best 1/4 time ever on a stock turbo evo
all i can say is great job !
I just can't beleive how good this guy's car is running - I literally created his base map out of my head in about 5 mins when i was at AMS - he had some injectors, cams and head work which we had no base map for so I was just trying to get him something to use to drive down the road - not something to rival the best 1/4 time ever on a stock turbo evo
all i can say is great job !
I dont know but i dont care if Jesus Christ himself is tuning my car i do not want some map someone created in his head in 5 min, even if the car ran good, i do not feel that is a good idea.. If tuners could make up maps in their heads in 5 min there would be no need for tuning.. It is bad enough all these 1hr dyno tunes, tuning a safe map that makes power, and is safe in all conditions weither it be from a stop or a 5k rpm roll on takes time.
Dave
