DynoFlash or DynoTrash? You be the judge!
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DynoFlash or DynoTrash? You be the judge!
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Thread closed for the following reasons:
1. User imprezivr6 is utilizing multiple ID's. This is against site policy. User banned.
2. Flaming
3. Vendors are not allowed to bash, comment, compare themselves to the products, methods, personalities of other Vendors.
Just want to start off by saying i dont want this to be a flame fest, what i am writing here is my review of the whole dynoflash operation. I am just typing what i saw with my own eye's and heard with my own ears..
Well Saturday i stopped by Pruven Performance to watch the DynoFlash dyno day. The car that was on the dyno when i got there was Evo8power's car, after hours of "tuning" he walked out of there on his race gas map with 38x whp on race gas.. Hmm not too great for the mods on the car. AL had every excuse in the book why the car would not make power..
Onto the next car a Tarmac Black. After a few pump gas tuning pulls Al comes in the shop with a dyno sheet for the owner of the car, it had made the same power he had made at a previous dyno day with far lesss mods. Al's reasoning was do to the "bov leaking boost" Ok that is fair enough, All of us in the shop told Al we should just swap out the valve since there were a few evos there with better then stock BPV's that were willing to donate one so the guy could get tuned.. Al's responce was lets dump in the c16 and turn up the boost see how that goes.. I immedietly was like" If the stock BPV is leaking at 20 psi on pump why waste $50 in c16 and try to push 25psi out of it?" Al looked at me like i knew nothing and proceeded to dump the gas in the car. After a pull at 25psi with no changes to the flash he comes back with the dynosheet, the car made 2whp less with 5psi more boost.. That is understandable since c16 richens out the car to no end, and the AFR plot on the dyno sheet confirmed this.. BUt for some reason Al made excuses that the C16 was not making the car runs rich(10.0:1 or so) but rather the "air flow sensor metering more air"
No matter how many times we told him that the car was only rich due to the 5gal of c16 he dumped in, he made up excuse after excuse why the car was rich, and pulled it off the dyno.. The owner said "Al didnt the AFR richen due to the C16 you just dumped in?" Al said " c16 leans the car out not richens it" WTF Anyone who knows anything knows c16 richens the **** out of the mixture, and takes a lot more advance and leaner AFR's to even burn properly.. No matter how much concern the owner showed Al, Al just sat there on his computer surfing the net or whatever he was dong and made one excuse after another..
Next car made around 300whp on pump and 315 or so on 100octane, which too is rather low for a car with cams, and a host of other boltons.. Al' kept blaming everything other then his tuning for the Low power.. He even went so far as to say it was" definetly" the intake the car was running, and the HKS RS would cure that problem..
Mean while the guy with the tarmac black was very unhappy Al charged him for the c16 tune and he did no tuning.. Finally Pruven stepped in and took the guys car and found a boost leak off the turbo, where a cap had popped of a vac line.. After numerous attempts for Al to get the car back on the dyno he just blew off the guy and kept telling him later, later...
Onto the next car White Evo, The ONLY car there that was a first time customer, all the rest had been at MANY of al's dyno days. The car had 264/272 cams, IC pipes, Turbo Back exhaust, HKS RS intake, MR BPV,Utec, Fuel Pump, and injectors. THe car was there for a Dynoflash and a c16 tune for the utec.. We watched Al do some pulls and after some faild attempts at loading base maps and hoping they would work he actually got the laptop out, that was the first time i saw him have the laptop in the car all day(more on this later) He began to "tune" After a few pulls the car was making 335whp, hmmm that is weird every other one of his repeat customers isnt making **** for power with the same if not more mods then this car, seems like Al is trying to gain a new customer here and keep the others coming back for retunes.. Then onto the c16 tune for the utec.. For these runs we all walked away since the dyno room was hot as hell, after 10 min and 2 pulls the car was making 360whp on, and they pulled the car off the rollers.. This struck me as very weird on how you can tune a c16 race gas map FROM scratch in 10 min and 2 pulls, it really didnt sit well with me.. After the car got off the rollers Al proceded to say how the guy who did the utec is the "best utec tuner, in the country" and that is why he can tune it so fast. After talking with the owner of the white evo, i remember him saying he had a c16 map he ran at the track antother member gave him, and he went 12.7 or so on it(before the other mods, just exhaust and utec) I said to the owner" well you deleted the Map off the utec before giving them the car right? He looked at me like, OMG and said " i am an idiot i left it on there, and it is labled Evo C16 map 24psi" When we got the car to his house i got out my laptop and pulled up the map they had "made" and the map he had on his PC that he got from the other member, and after comparing them in a program i have there was literally no changes in the entire map! They used HIS map he had gotten for free and charged him for it!!
No it is getting really late, and a few unscheduled Evo's came one being a turbo trix tuned Evo.. Al kept insisting the TT car get on the rollers.. So he did, the car had made around 290-300 at TT, but for some reason he only made 240 Hmm weird, when the owner of the car told Al he was tuned at 20+ psi and was only running 18psi Al said he would adjust the MBC.. Another Pull and the car made another 240whp run.. THe owner told me the car was not hitting over 18psi, hmm funny you would think Al would know how to opperate an MBC huh..
After a few more unscheduled cars went the Owner of the black car really wanted Al to tune his car like he had paid for, and Al refused saying he didnt have time
So he had time to take a car from turbo trix just to PROVE a point and make TT look bad but he didnt have time to fix the customers car who already PAID!
It was a day full of Shadyness, Marketing, BAD excuses, other tuner bad mouthing, Self proclaimed glory, and reasons why no cars made power, except the One new car he had never tuned before.. I even heard Al refer to him self as "the #1 reflash tuner in the US"
The entire day the only time i saw the laptop in the car was the white car, from what i could tell he would do a pull take out the ecu and go into the office where i assume he has a bench flasher and would upload a base map, it seems he would just keep doing this until he found a map that worked.. Doesnt really seem like "tuning" to me.. Unless Al has some sort of logging software in his brain he did no logging.. I can say after the days events that i am SCARED for the people running these reflashes..
In Closing i want to say the employees of pruven were very nice to the crowd the entire time, they awnsered my questions, and were not cocky or arrogant at all unlike the "god of reflashes" They actually found the leak on the car and capped it off, that was very cool of them... They didnt complain about having to stay WAAAY past their closing time and finish what they started, so to them i wanted to say thanks!
Please lets not turn this into a flame war and get this thread closed, i posted this so you guys can form your own opinions of the situation. Like i said i am just posting what I saw with my own eyes.. And all the Al fanboys, please do not chime in here because you guys are too blind to see when someone is bending you over.. I know how dynos work and how easy they are to be manipulated to read LOW or HIGH, which ever the dyno operator wants..
Thread closed for the following reasons:
1. User imprezivr6 is utilizing multiple ID's. This is against site policy. User banned.
2. Flaming
3. Vendors are not allowed to bash, comment, compare themselves to the products, methods, personalities of other Vendors.
Just want to start off by saying i dont want this to be a flame fest, what i am writing here is my review of the whole dynoflash operation. I am just typing what i saw with my own eye's and heard with my own ears..
Well Saturday i stopped by Pruven Performance to watch the DynoFlash dyno day. The car that was on the dyno when i got there was Evo8power's car, after hours of "tuning" he walked out of there on his race gas map with 38x whp on race gas.. Hmm not too great for the mods on the car. AL had every excuse in the book why the car would not make power..
Onto the next car a Tarmac Black. After a few pump gas tuning pulls Al comes in the shop with a dyno sheet for the owner of the car, it had made the same power he had made at a previous dyno day with far lesss mods. Al's reasoning was do to the "bov leaking boost" Ok that is fair enough, All of us in the shop told Al we should just swap out the valve since there were a few evos there with better then stock BPV's that were willing to donate one so the guy could get tuned.. Al's responce was lets dump in the c16 and turn up the boost see how that goes.. I immedietly was like" If the stock BPV is leaking at 20 psi on pump why waste $50 in c16 and try to push 25psi out of it?" Al looked at me like i knew nothing and proceeded to dump the gas in the car. After a pull at 25psi with no changes to the flash he comes back with the dynosheet, the car made 2whp less with 5psi more boost.. That is understandable since c16 richens out the car to no end, and the AFR plot on the dyno sheet confirmed this.. BUt for some reason Al made excuses that the C16 was not making the car runs rich(10.0:1 or so) but rather the "air flow sensor metering more air"
No matter how many times we told him that the car was only rich due to the 5gal of c16 he dumped in, he made up excuse after excuse why the car was rich, and pulled it off the dyno.. The owner said "Al didnt the AFR richen due to the C16 you just dumped in?" Al said " c16 leans the car out not richens it" WTF Anyone who knows anything knows c16 richens the **** out of the mixture, and takes a lot more advance and leaner AFR's to even burn properly.. No matter how much concern the owner showed Al, Al just sat there on his computer surfing the net or whatever he was dong and made one excuse after another..Next car made around 300whp on pump and 315 or so on 100octane, which too is rather low for a car with cams, and a host of other boltons.. Al' kept blaming everything other then his tuning for the Low power.. He even went so far as to say it was" definetly" the intake the car was running, and the HKS RS would cure that problem..
Mean while the guy with the tarmac black was very unhappy Al charged him for the c16 tune and he did no tuning.. Finally Pruven stepped in and took the guys car and found a boost leak off the turbo, where a cap had popped of a vac line.. After numerous attempts for Al to get the car back on the dyno he just blew off the guy and kept telling him later, later...
Onto the next car White Evo, The ONLY car there that was a first time customer, all the rest had been at MANY of al's dyno days. The car had 264/272 cams, IC pipes, Turbo Back exhaust, HKS RS intake, MR BPV,Utec, Fuel Pump, and injectors. THe car was there for a Dynoflash and a c16 tune for the utec.. We watched Al do some pulls and after some faild attempts at loading base maps and hoping they would work he actually got the laptop out, that was the first time i saw him have the laptop in the car all day(more on this later) He began to "tune" After a few pulls the car was making 335whp, hmmm that is weird every other one of his repeat customers isnt making **** for power with the same if not more mods then this car, seems like Al is trying to gain a new customer here and keep the others coming back for retunes.. Then onto the c16 tune for the utec.. For these runs we all walked away since the dyno room was hot as hell, after 10 min and 2 pulls the car was making 360whp on, and they pulled the car off the rollers.. This struck me as very weird on how you can tune a c16 race gas map FROM scratch in 10 min and 2 pulls, it really didnt sit well with me.. After the car got off the rollers Al proceded to say how the guy who did the utec is the "best utec tuner, in the country" and that is why he can tune it so fast. After talking with the owner of the white evo, i remember him saying he had a c16 map he ran at the track antother member gave him, and he went 12.7 or so on it(before the other mods, just exhaust and utec) I said to the owner" well you deleted the Map off the utec before giving them the car right? He looked at me like, OMG and said " i am an idiot i left it on there, and it is labled Evo C16 map 24psi" When we got the car to his house i got out my laptop and pulled up the map they had "made" and the map he had on his PC that he got from the other member, and after comparing them in a program i have there was literally no changes in the entire map! They used HIS map he had gotten for free and charged him for it!!
No it is getting really late, and a few unscheduled Evo's came one being a turbo trix tuned Evo.. Al kept insisting the TT car get on the rollers.. So he did, the car had made around 290-300 at TT, but for some reason he only made 240
Hmm weird, when the owner of the car told Al he was tuned at 20+ psi and was only running 18psi Al said he would adjust the MBC.. Another Pull and the car made another 240whp run.. THe owner told me the car was not hitting over 18psi, hmm funny you would think Al would know how to opperate an MBC huh..After a few more unscheduled cars went the Owner of the black car really wanted Al to tune his car like he had paid for, and Al refused saying he didnt have time
So he had time to take a car from turbo trix just to PROVE a point and make TT look bad but he didnt have time to fix the customers car who already PAID!It was a day full of Shadyness, Marketing, BAD excuses, other tuner bad mouthing, Self proclaimed glory, and reasons why no cars made power, except the One new car he had never tuned before.. I even heard Al refer to him self as "the #1 reflash tuner in the US"
The entire day the only time i saw the laptop in the car was the white car, from what i could tell he would do a pull take out the ecu and go into the office where i assume he has a bench flasher and would upload a base map, it seems he would just keep doing this until he found a map that worked.. Doesnt really seem like "tuning" to me.. Unless Al has some sort of logging software in his brain he did no logging.. I can say after the days events that i am SCARED for the people running these reflashes..
In Closing i want to say the employees of pruven were very nice to the crowd the entire time, they awnsered my questions, and were not cocky or arrogant at all unlike the "god of reflashes" They actually found the leak on the car and capped it off, that was very cool of them... They didnt complain about having to stay WAAAY past their closing time and finish what they started, so to them i wanted to say thanks!
Please lets not turn this into a flame war and get this thread closed, i posted this so you guys can form your own opinions of the situation. Like i said i am just posting what I saw with my own eyes.. And all the Al fanboys, please do not chime in here because you guys are too blind to see when someone is bending you over.. I know how dynos work and how easy they are to be manipulated to read LOW or HIGH, which ever the dyno operator wants..
Last edited by Secret Chimp; Sep 7, 2004 at 05:07 PM.
eh....I saw Shiv tune a Evo with an Exede/cams/catless TBE, it made less power than another car with SAFC/EBC/TBE on less boost...same day, same dyno.
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
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Originally Posted by evocolorado
eh....I saw Shiv tune a Evo with an Exede/cams/catless TBE, it made less power than another car with SAFC/EBC/TBE on less boost...same day, same dyno.
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
Funny when asked, most seemed to have made more power on their first tune then all of a sudded every other time they have all these "problems" and need to come back for more..
Like i said i was posting this to inform you guys of what i saw so you can form your OWN opinions..
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From: driving the 10 second beast in ohio or running lightmods.net
this is interesting....i hope more people that are for dynoflash jump on to show you the other side to the story
Last edited by evodave; Sep 7, 2004 at 10:41 AM.
I was going to have Al tune my Evo, but I am going to wait. I had better luck just tuning my own ECU with my WRX. I think that AEM or Utec is the way to go. Tuning really isn't that difficult anyway. It is kind of a PITA to stay on top of it though, that is why I was going to go with a reflash.
What is up with the C16? That is the weak way to make power on the dyno. Man, I would be so pissed if this happened to me. To shady for this soldier.
What is up with the C16? That is the weak way to make power on the dyno. Man, I would be so pissed if this happened to me. To shady for this soldier.
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Originally Posted by evocolorado
eh....I saw Shiv tune a Evo with an Exede/cams/catless TBE, it made less power than another car with SAFC/EBC/TBE on less boost...same day, same dyno.
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
So, I venture to say all tuners tune for what they feel is safe etc.... you don't like what you see don't buy the product.
Nate
Originally Posted by imprezivr6
Yea, sorry it is so long guys. I just wanted to get everything across.. I never felt so mad as when i left there that night..
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Originally Posted by n00dle
IIRC this was prior to the Xede having boost control, so it doesn't surprise me that an Evo equipped with an EBC would make more power.
Seriously to see how some of the people would sit there and looking sad they didnt make power then say to everyone, "I need to get that new intake and get retuned so i can make power"
I think people need to do more research into how cars work and not blindly trust someone with a financial intrest in you.. I know it is hard when you do not know much but ask others that have nothing to gain by giving you advice first..
Originally Posted by imprezivr6
Yea, sorry it is so long guys. I just wanted to get everything across.. I never felt so mad as when i left there that night..
Are you an Evo owner?
Are you a dynoflash customer? If not, why were you there?
Just curious and all...
Originally Posted by imprezivr6
The power isnt the entire problem here.. People getting roped out of hard earned money and being treated like incompetent fools is...
Seriously to see how some of the people would sit there and looking sad they didnt make power then say to everyone, "I need to get that new intake and get retuned so i can make power"
I think people need to do more research into how cars work and not blindly trust someone with a financial intrest in you.. I know it is hard when you do not know much but ask others that have nothing to gain by giving you advice first..
Seriously to see how some of the people would sit there and looking sad they didnt make power then say to everyone, "I need to get that new intake and get retuned so i can make power"
I think people need to do more research into how cars work and not blindly trust someone with a financial intrest in you.. I know it is hard when you do not know much but ask others that have nothing to gain by giving you advice first..
Lucky for me my tuner didn't pull anything shaddy and nowhere near what you have described here.
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Originally Posted by n00dle
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your observations with us. There's been quite a few bad experiences with this tuner lately.
I dont own an Evo but my one of my best friends DOES, and i dont like seing my friend, let alone other car people get treated like that.. I do own a 400whp Wrx and know my way around a car.. I am not ignorant, i like most cars, evo's,wrx's, supras, some civics,etc.. if a car is clean and i like it then i respect it..
D-
Last edited by imprezivr6; Sep 6, 2004 at 08:44 PM.
