That's about 11 more than we have in all of Los Angeles. It must be all the bureaucrats needing to fill up the demonstration vehicles.

 

They need more E-85 stations out here in Vegas. E85 works great here because our humidity is so low and we don't have to worry about cold starts.

 

Been in below freezing weather with e85 not e70 and no issues. If anything the worst tuning part is fixing up the cold idle a bit to be slightly richer.

 

Someone posted in a thread in the general forum that E85 was not going to subsidized at the end of the year and it will be really expensive to get.

Anyone hear any truth to that?

 

It is a possibility- the tax credit is being debated already as the VEETC expires at year end. The credit is 45 cents on the pure ethanol so the actual max credit is on E85 summer blend is $0.45 x 0.85 = $0.3825.

Part of the debate is somewhat justified- the credit is paid out to the blender who is almost always the oil company who is mandated to use a certain level. The idea of it was to pay for building tankage/handling systems at oil terminals. I would say at 30 cent margins common to oil companies over the past 2-4 years the oil boys do not likely need such support. HOWEVER- if the US Govt wants E85 stations to be built out in a intelligent manner the high ethanol blends SHOULD continue to gain this credit. Currently 99% of this credit expense is generated making the E10 and only 1% is used to make E15-thru E85. Not only that but nearly every state and all federal taxes are volumetric- not btu based. Thus- a major chunk of the credit is to off-set the over-taxation on a btu basis (a temporary fix for poor taxation law). In other words- without the credit and FFV going down the road will overpay road taxes by 20-28%.

 

I read a few articles and it looks like it may raise the cost at the pump by 5 cents.

 

^ it may raise the price at the pump, but as your tax dollars are already subsidizing the product in the first place it shouldnt exactly be a shock.

The benefit of it being subsidized is that as our country runs at such an unsustainably negative cash flow your not "actually" going to subsidize all of it.... The rest will be recovered in the next 50 or so years as interest payments to service our debt.

Hey, come to think of it, maybe we should stop subsidizing this crap and let the market determine its long term sustainability?

 

Ryan- re-read my post- I am only advocating it be continued on HIGH ethanol blends such as E85 in part because E85 is overtaxed without the credit- at least until they fix the volumetric tax to a BTU basis instead of "by the gallon". Also-over 99% of the tax credit goes to E10 where it is less needed--not E85. Add to this that this credit was in large part a shift from grain deficiency payouts over to oil companies for the blending of E10. More yet- if the money stays in the US it means a lot for the balance of trade issue. If you consider those things and then also consider reducing the normal oil company tax breaks then it makes a point that to "see if it will stand on it's own" will not hold up until; 1) tax breaks for oil is eliminated, 2) each state and the feds tax motor fuels on a BTU basis rather the equal per gallon (they at least do this in one case partially-diesel), 3) then eliminate the blender credit on mandated e10 blends, then last, 4) eliminate the blender credit for HIGH ethanol blends.

Here's the problem- the govt wants to see the taxes remain on the same per gallon basis while reducing the credit because If you drive E85- you will pay more road tax per mile- and we all know the govt wants more. From an oil company view- they would just as soon see E85 go away- who wants competiton anyway?

 

Need more pumps available to be competative

 

So everybody tells me no more E-85 by 2011??? Is there any truth to this?

 

E85 prices seem competitive here are our one station in LA... IMO

 

E85 here is $2.049, E10 87 octane is $2.899, E0 87 octane is 2.999 (if you can find it), 93 octane is $3.099.

Sales of ethanol to E85 stations is a far better deal than selling to oil companies at $1.499. It will only grow as more sources become available. 1/3 of what I sell comes from waste whey-- a byproduct of the cheese industry which previously land spread the stuff to get rid of it.

 

Guys, this thread makes me sad because it's representative of why my industry (which I've been in since 1986) has done a terrible job of informing the public about Ethanol. Regardless of the source of the ethanol, e-85 isn't going away. Right now the wholesale price 84 octane gasoline is 2.28 in Chicago, and Chicago ethanol is at 1.57.

It doesn't take much to figure out that e85 is cheaper than regular gasoline. If you find someone selling it for more than gasoline, then that person is either a terrible buyer or fleecing the public.

A few other notes, ethanol is not energy negative. There have been plenty of studies that have concluded this ever since the infamous and incorrect study that even took the value of the sunlight required to grow the corn! I suggest reading this if you want to balance your argument for/against.

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg...gy_Balance.pdf

My personal politics is strongly for supporting energy development within our own economic system, rather than sending billions of dollars to foreign OPEC member states that are actively working against us.

Also, don't forget that ethanol plants not only produce ethanol, the produce tons of DDGs which feed many different animals, as well as production of other oils that can be used to produce BD.

This is just in regards to field corn (humans eat sweet corn). Ethanol is moving into other advanced crops such as barley (which is grown in fallow winter fields in some locations), and soon will be commercially viable using biomass.

Anyway, I'm happy to answer questions if they are posed by a reasonable thinking individual that wants to learn.

 

e85 is becomign mnore popular 3 stations popped up around my area recently!

 

I wish just 1 station would "pop" up in my area...