Pros and Cons of going E85
You can learn about the black substance here on this page. The mystery was solved IMO
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...e-85-a-11.html
Its called PIB & is in the gasoline portion of E85
Celebrating my 7th year running E85 & have really enjoyed it. Its not just about making more power, the 4G63 just runs smoother & cooler on the juice
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...e-85-a-11.html
Its called PIB & is in the gasoline portion of E85
Celebrating my 7th year running E85 & have really enjoyed it. Its not just about making more power, the 4G63 just runs smoother & cooler on the juice
I've heard that when converting a car to ethanol, it eats away the residue that gasoline leaves over time and will clog your fuel filter "quickly". So if/when you do, I'd change your fuel filters shortly after.
But with gas prices going up like they are, it's gonna be cheaper to run e85 than it is for gasoline here soon.
But with gas prices going up like they are, it's gonna be cheaper to run e85 than it is for gasoline here soon.
You can learn about the black substance here on this page. The mystery was solved IMO
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...e-85-a-11.html
Its called PIB & is in the gasoline portion of E85
Celebrating my 7th year running E85 & have really enjoyed it. Its not just about making more power, the 4G63 just runs smoother & cooler on the juice
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...e-85-a-11.html
Its called PIB & is in the gasoline portion of E85
Celebrating my 7th year running E85 & have really enjoyed it. Its not just about making more power, the 4G63 just runs smoother & cooler on the juice
Yup and in conjunction with that thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...years-e85.html. Since I've moved I no longer have access to E85 and I miss it dearly. The only issue with E85 is having it sit in your tank for an extended period of time, especially if you live in a humid area. Other than that, it's an awesome fuel and my car ran so much better on and off the track than with crappy pump gas. All these naysayers spouting off about ethanol seem to have a vested interest in fossil fuels.
As far as "spouting off", some of just don't think it's worth the risk. It's fine that others do, of course. Just my preference. A personal friend of mine lost a very expensive 2.4L to gummed up injectors. That was all i needed to see. Again, just a preference and nobody is saying it's wrong to use e85.
It's weird... everyone is fine that people run e85, but all the e85 peeps lose their minds when someone says they prefer to run on pump gas. LOL
I always wonder how long before i have to worry about it. I decided to toss some in for a tune and it's been in the car for about a month. I'm sure that's fine.
As far as "spouting off", some of just don't think it's worth the risk. It's fine that others do, of course. Just my preference. A personal friend of mine lost a very expensive 2.4L to gummed up injectors. That was all i needed to see. Again, just a preference and nobody is saying it's wrong to use e85.
It's weird... everyone is fine that people run e85, but all the e85 peeps lose their minds when someone says they prefer to run on pump gas. LOL
As far as "spouting off", some of just don't think it's worth the risk. It's fine that others do, of course. Just my preference. A personal friend of mine lost a very expensive 2.4L to gummed up injectors. That was all i needed to see. Again, just a preference and nobody is saying it's wrong to use e85.
It's weird... everyone is fine that people run e85, but all the e85 peeps lose their minds when someone says they prefer to run on pump gas. LOL
Where I live at the moment there's a big push by politicians to get rid of ethanol blend requirements while I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum trying to figure out how to get ethanol here. Most people in my state have it engrained in their head that ethanol is the devil's juice and your car will blow up if you run it.
I've left E85 sitting in my tank for 3 weeks with no adverse effects. Granted I used to live in a state with low humidity and my car was garaged. If I lived in a super humid state and my car were to sit outside in the rain for weeks on end with no movement, then I'd be more inclined to drain my tank and put pump gas in.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
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From: Kansas City, MO
Many things, a sponge, paper, and ethanol are hygroscopic. That doesn't mean they pull water out of the air. I'm not convinced that ethanol pulls water out of the air.
Water mixes with ethanol, ethanol mixes with gasoline, but gasoline doesn't mix with water. Condensation that drops into your fuel containing ethanol is absorbed by the ethanol. If the amount of water absorbed by the ethanol gets too great, the gasoline starts to see the ethanol more as water and the ethanol/water mix separates out, just as water would separate out of gasoline. Ethanol doesn't go bad, water and ethanol doesn't go bad. There are many people who pay large amounts of money for small jars of mixes of ethanol and water that is 20-40 years old. Then they drink it. It's the gasoline that goes bad. The more ethanol the better.
Water mixes with ethanol, ethanol mixes with gasoline, but gasoline doesn't mix with water. Condensation that drops into your fuel containing ethanol is absorbed by the ethanol. If the amount of water absorbed by the ethanol gets too great, the gasoline starts to see the ethanol more as water and the ethanol/water mix separates out, just as water would separate out of gasoline. Ethanol doesn't go bad, water and ethanol doesn't go bad. There are many people who pay large amounts of money for small jars of mixes of ethanol and water that is 20-40 years old. Then they drink it. It's the gasoline that goes bad. The more ethanol the better.
EvoM Community Team Leader
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
haha these aren't 2 strokes, you get lube from your engine oil not the gas. It does burn much cleaner which means less carbon deposits and probably longer engine life.
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 116
Likes: 22
From: usa
Not to mention that ethanol destroys rubbers and gasketss (some). If you don't believe me, take a small water bottle, put e85 and a few gasketss and o-rings in it and leave it over night. Make sure you put a cap on the bottle, e85 will be gone before you know it otherwise.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
EvoM Community Team Leader
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
Not to mention that ethanol destroys rubbers and gasketss (some). If you don't believe me, take a small water bottle, put e85 and a few gasketss and o-rings in it and leave it over night. Make sure you put a cap on the bottle, e85 will be gone before you know it otherwise.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
Not to mention that ethanol destroys rubbers and gasketss (some). If you don't believe me, take a small water bottle, put e85 and a few gasketss and o-rings in it and leave it over night. Make sure you put a cap on the bottle, e85 will be gone before you know it otherwise.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
.
Today I did a check on the fuel system in my Evo. I have been doing this every 6 months or so since I started running E85 in my Evo. This time I took photos.
Some starting points:
- 2005 Evo 8
- 3+ years on *straight* E85 (hasn't run pump gas since E85 was available where I live)
- 74,XXX miles on the car
- Approx 5X,XXX miles on E85
- Probably thousands of gallons of E85 has run through this car
- In the last year the car has sat in the garage for 1-2 months or so with no driving and with E85 in the tank. (I own a 2010 RA Sportback I have been driving more often, also runs on E85)
- The car has seen 105F+ to 5F (Tahoe)
On to the photos.
Pulled the fuel pump assembly, this whole assembly is submerged in E85:
Inside the tank, spotless (yes that has E85 in it in the photo:
Close up of in-tank hoses:
Bending the hoses to see if they have been compromised:
Close up of the hoses after disconnecting them:
Inside:
Squeezing each one to see if there are any cracks or have been compromised:
This "grommet" is attached to the top of the fuel pump, on the delivery output and slides into the assembly. This sees constant E85. Here I am squeezing it to make sure it has not become brittle, has any cracking or anything else that would indicate it breaking down:
Here is the same part next to a brand new OEM part that has never seen E85 or any fuel (OEM brand new part on right)
This is attached to the bottom of the pump. Here I am doing the same thing as above and bending it to see if it has been compromised:
Underside:
Here is the same part next to a brand new OEM on that has never seen E85 or any fuel ever. (brand new part on left)
Fuel sock, original OEM, never been changed:
Pump output:
Showing that it is a Walbro pump:
On to the injectors:
Injector #1 (I had already taken off the rubber grommet to check it, was ok):
Injector #2 (with grommet):
Injector #3 (Grommet is dirty, not broken down)
Injector #4:
O-ring, I check each one, all still fine, not brittle or compromised:
I also checked the hose on the fuel rail, hose to the pump assembly, etc etc and they where all still fine, not brittle or compromised in any way.
Here is to many more trouble free miles on E85!
Some starting points:
- 2005 Evo 8
- 3+ years on *straight* E85 (hasn't run pump gas since E85 was available where I live)
- 74,XXX miles on the car
- Approx 5X,XXX miles on E85
- Probably thousands of gallons of E85 has run through this car
- In the last year the car has sat in the garage for 1-2 months or so with no driving and with E85 in the tank. (I own a 2010 RA Sportback I have been driving more often, also runs on E85)
- The car has seen 105F+ to 5F (Tahoe)
On to the photos.
Pulled the fuel pump assembly, this whole assembly is submerged in E85:
Inside the tank, spotless (yes that has E85 in it in the photo:
Close up of in-tank hoses:
Bending the hoses to see if they have been compromised:
Close up of the hoses after disconnecting them:
Inside:
Squeezing each one to see if there are any cracks or have been compromised:
This "grommet" is attached to the top of the fuel pump, on the delivery output and slides into the assembly. This sees constant E85. Here I am squeezing it to make sure it has not become brittle, has any cracking or anything else that would indicate it breaking down:
Here is the same part next to a brand new OEM part that has never seen E85 or any fuel (OEM brand new part on right)
This is attached to the bottom of the pump. Here I am doing the same thing as above and bending it to see if it has been compromised:
Underside:
Here is the same part next to a brand new OEM on that has never seen E85 or any fuel ever. (brand new part on left)
Fuel sock, original OEM, never been changed:
Pump output:
Showing that it is a Walbro pump:
On to the injectors:
Injector #1 (I had already taken off the rubber grommet to check it, was ok):
Injector #2 (with grommet):
Injector #3 (Grommet is dirty, not broken down)
Injector #4:
O-ring, I check each one, all still fine, not brittle or compromised:
I also checked the hose on the fuel rail, hose to the pump assembly, etc etc and they where all still fine, not brittle or compromised in any way.
Here is to many more trouble free miles on E85!
You must work for the oil companies or something lol. Anyway you are miss informed, our fuel systems are compliant with E-85 as ethanol is now mandated to be blended into gasoline by the federal government. Many states switched from MTBE to ethanol as an anti-knocking agent long before these government mandates as well. I have been running E-85 exclusively for over half a decade now and there has been no effect on any of my seals, gaskets, or fuel lines.
I do the same on a local Evo Facebook page and people get all butt hurt.
😆
Not to mention that ethanol destroys rubbers and gasketss (some). If you don't believe me, take a small water bottle, put e85 and a few gasketss and o-rings in it and leave it over night. Make sure you put a cap on the bottle, e85 will be gone before you know it otherwise.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
These older engines did not use gasketss made to survive e85 like flex fuel engines did.
Here is a thread I created almost six years ago: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/e8...ml#post9547265
My current Evo 10 has been down for six months now with E85 in the tank the whole time. I just redid/upgraded the fuel system and EVERYTHING was fine, all the rubber, gaskets, lines, pumps, etc. Sent injectors out and they passed flow tests with flying colors. Injectors with E85 in them sitting for six months.
AMS did your "E85 in a jar test" in 2008 and:
Originally Posted by AMS
Researched preformed by AMS (http://amsperformance.com)
By: Chris Black
I’m not sure what initially sparked our interest in E85 fuel. Somehow, one of us was surfing the internet and stumbled upon it, let a few other people know, and eventually everyone had just as many questions as we had answers! Using our searching capabilities we scoured every information source we could find on the fuel. There are three major questions that everyone asks about E85; what is the advantage of it, what does it do to my fuel system and what do I need to do to run it? Two of these questions can be answered easily, while the question of what it does to your fuel system remains somewhat unanswered.
E85 is supposedly a corrosive fuel if you take into account that it is 85% ethanol. The properties of ethanol, while less corrosive than its counterpart methanol, are listed as being able to corrode aluminum, weaken and eat through rubber fuel lines, and do other nasty things to components commonly found in your fuel system. Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (OEM) fuel systems have been made more tolerant of ethanol than they were in the past. Normal gasoline can contain up to 10% of ethanol, which OEMs have had to deal with by federal regulation. None of these companies, if they are smart, have done the absolute bare minimum to be in compliance with the fuel that we use today. If they had, there would be problems with the fuel systems that would incite huge numbers of recalls and eventually cost them more money. However, it is very tough to figure out how far they have gone with their ethanol compatibility without testing, or the exact chemical makeup of each part. There is no real way for us to know how the factory fuel system on each particular car is going to hold up until someone is brave enough to test it.
The Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution is a relatively new vehicle with parts that aren’t exactly easy to find in a junkyard, or used for a reasonable price. If you break something in your brand new EVO 9’s fuel system because you were running E85, chances are you warranty claim is going to be denied. The best thing to do in this situation for us was to use all the broken pieces of various fuel systems we had and submerge them in containers of E85. While the test is not the most scientific thing I have ever done, it serves its purpose. In our 6 containers we have:
- A stock EVO fuel sending unit
- Various fuel lines of different material, including the stock EVO lines and Stainless Steel braided line
- A DSM fuel injector
- fuel injector o-rings and isolators
- bare aluminum
- anodized aluminum
- stainless bolts
- A disassembled inline Walbro fuel pump
- An extra jar filled with e85
Our extra jar of E85 not only serves as a control, but allows me to monitor how much water this fuel is going to soak up. Ethanol is a very hydroscopic liquid, which means it likes to absorb water. When there is roughly a 1% content of water the ethanol and gasoline will separate and obviously start to cause some issues.
After about 4 months, there has been no change in the composition of the materials that are submerged in the containers.
By: Chris Black
I’m not sure what initially sparked our interest in E85 fuel. Somehow, one of us was surfing the internet and stumbled upon it, let a few other people know, and eventually everyone had just as many questions as we had answers! Using our searching capabilities we scoured every information source we could find on the fuel. There are three major questions that everyone asks about E85; what is the advantage of it, what does it do to my fuel system and what do I need to do to run it? Two of these questions can be answered easily, while the question of what it does to your fuel system remains somewhat unanswered.
E85 is supposedly a corrosive fuel if you take into account that it is 85% ethanol. The properties of ethanol, while less corrosive than its counterpart methanol, are listed as being able to corrode aluminum, weaken and eat through rubber fuel lines, and do other nasty things to components commonly found in your fuel system. Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (OEM) fuel systems have been made more tolerant of ethanol than they were in the past. Normal gasoline can contain up to 10% of ethanol, which OEMs have had to deal with by federal regulation. None of these companies, if they are smart, have done the absolute bare minimum to be in compliance with the fuel that we use today. If they had, there would be problems with the fuel systems that would incite huge numbers of recalls and eventually cost them more money. However, it is very tough to figure out how far they have gone with their ethanol compatibility without testing, or the exact chemical makeup of each part. There is no real way for us to know how the factory fuel system on each particular car is going to hold up until someone is brave enough to test it.
The Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution is a relatively new vehicle with parts that aren’t exactly easy to find in a junkyard, or used for a reasonable price. If you break something in your brand new EVO 9’s fuel system because you were running E85, chances are you warranty claim is going to be denied. The best thing to do in this situation for us was to use all the broken pieces of various fuel systems we had and submerge them in containers of E85. While the test is not the most scientific thing I have ever done, it serves its purpose. In our 6 containers we have:
- A stock EVO fuel sending unit
- Various fuel lines of different material, including the stock EVO lines and Stainless Steel braided line
- A DSM fuel injector
- fuel injector o-rings and isolators
- bare aluminum
- anodized aluminum
- stainless bolts
- A disassembled inline Walbro fuel pump
- An extra jar filled with e85
Our extra jar of E85 not only serves as a control, but allows me to monitor how much water this fuel is going to soak up. Ethanol is a very hydroscopic liquid, which means it likes to absorb water. When there is roughly a 1% content of water the ethanol and gasoline will separate and obviously start to cause some issues.
After about 4 months, there has been no change in the composition of the materials that are submerged in the containers.