You seem to be a bright person and a good tuner. But your poselytizing is getting a little tiresome. People are trying to learn and share knowledge. That obviously threatens your income and I am sympathetic. But asking someone to pull a log is is shameful. With all due respect, if you cannot climb out of your ivory tower long enough to share your experience without resorting to this sort of self aggrandizing diatribe then perhaps you should just relegate yourself to policing the forum for those cloaking the exploitation of your intellectual property as a pursuit of knowledge and report them privately instead of posting publicly and taking threads off topic.

Also, does anyone have any input on frequency and duration as it relates to knock sum? I would really like to hear what any experienced tuners would like to share.

 

This is a problem caused by the release of a tuner program to non tuners. This would not exist if it was not for the expoitation of the ecutek program and the creating of freeware based on this exploited product. It is a shame, however the evoscan program is innovative and unique. Reviewing a stock Evo logs or USER-TUNED log is one thing and an equal amount can be learned from that type of review.

The problem is EVERYONE is an "expert" and you have a thread filled of "1-3 counts of knocksum is detonation, add fuel" and "no under 10 counts is fine". Everyone speaks in certainty. Everyone wants to add their .02c as incorrect as they may be, diluting much that could actually be learned by reviewing a log.

 

that is your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

 

If you are into that HI/LOW maps the same and 9* of timing cut and pasted throughout the map kind of tune, go for it. We can call it the BR Stage1.

If you like that sort of tune, yes you are entitled to that opinion .

 

actually I take back what I said above, that map is crap. I have buschur stages 2-4 maps and they all have varied timing and different high/low maps. I assumed the stage 1 was like the rest but I was wrong. My bad.

 

I totally sympathize with not posting vendor maps on here but not posting log files is unreasonable. To analogize - If you're Microsoft you have every right to prevent someone from circulating the source code to Windows, but to restrict someone from posting his event logs when he's having a problem is simply wrong. Just because you tuned the car does not mean you own the car.

 

Wow. No logs. You've got to be kidding me.

There is no mention of logs in the do not post MAPS sicky. Did EvoM just "jump the shark"???

 

Cool, we agree... At least for the moment.

 

This is bull****.

 

Post the logs on ActiveMatrix.

 

I asked the admins to clarify the policy since there's nothing documented about logs, only maps. It's in their court.

 

Regardless of policy KO took them down on his own.

Evoscan was released after the policy rule was made. This is a new bridge for Evom to cross. I suspect they will treat it the same as maps as the information contained therein is similar.

 

What information is it you're concerned about being exposed in the EVOscan logs? I think it would be pretty difficult to reverse engineer the key maps and settings by just looking at an EVOscan log. If someone were skilled enough to do so they'd be skilled enough to do their own tuning.

 

I agree with TTP with the current availability of maps.. At the moment, there is a lack of "time tested" maps created by enthusiasts, this will change, but it takes time. The truth is most maps your going to see are going to be totally unsuitable for your own car, just the nature of tuning.

But I am a little shocked at the removing of logs.. I can understand not posting the map.. The logs however are a diagnostic tool, given enough time you can extract useful data on a map from it, but its no longer a map or any property of the tuner.

I do think people are getting a little knock crazy though.. I posted earlier in this thread, or in another thread about how the ECU seems to respond to knock.

Knock is something engines have ALWAYS dealt with.. Its something you will ALWAYS get.. Minimizing knock is a good thing, but you won't eliminate it, keeping counts as low as possible under varying conditions is the goal. The truth is, its rare that you will get sustained drastic bouts of knock that will do immediate damage unless you are tuned on the very edge, and then force the engine to continue to perform. Damage to bearings, pistons, etc, are due to tuning, either too much cylinder pressure (timing), detonation, or too lean, but generally it happens over a sustained period of time until it finally fails.

Does this mean you can throw caution to the wind? Of course not.. Careless tuning reduces the life of your engine and it will ultimately perform worse than a properly tuned engine. However low knock counts, periodic random knock (generally noise) is unavoidable and sometimes just can't be completely eliminated. This is where tuner experience is absolutely worth the money for his time.. A tuner understands the difference.. This is why the ECU generally pulls timing momentarily when you get high knock counts in a short period of time, but alters the octane number when these knock counts don't subside over time.

also, a knock count of 3 at 2500rpm, is SUBSTANTIALLY different than a knock count of 3 at 6000rpm, this is where those knock filters come in, they set the threshold for the intensity and volume of different frequencies. A knock signature at 6000rpm becomes harder to discriminate from noise, because the background noise is so much greater.. Thats why low counts are important to watch, but its more important to watch how the ECU responds to it.

Unfortunately this goes out the window when you change the harmonics of the engine (removing the balance shafts, or a stroker motor) Even wear on the pistons and rings will generate more noise over time.

 

A good comprimise may be removing certain columns from posted logs that may reveal vendor tuning methods - accel enrichment, for example. The key fields really seem to be RPM, timing advance, knock sum, airflow, and a couple of others. Timing advance -could- reveal a little bit but if you're having problems and are posting your logs, chances are the timing numbers that are being logged are not going to correspond with what's in the maps. I think the only fair way to decide if posting logs is a violation is to identify what exactly is being revealed. Not for selfish reasons but to prove the validity of the concerns of tuners over the posting of evoscan logs.