Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

Evoscan was released after the policy rule was made. This is a new bridge for Evom to cross. I suspect they will treat it the same as maps as the information contained therein is similar.

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

This is a problem caused by the release of a tuner program to non tuners. This would not exist if it was not for the expoitation of the ecutek program and the creating of freeware based on this exploited product. It is a shame, however the evoscan program is innovative and unique. Reviewing a stock Evo logs or USER-TUNED log is one thing and an equal amount can be learned from that type of review.

The problem is EVERYONE is an "expert" and you have a thread filled of "1-3 counts of knocksum is detonation, add fuel" and "no under 10 counts is fine". Everyone speaks in certainty. Everyone wants to add their .02c as incorrect as they may be, diluting much that could actually be learned by reviewing a log.

Originally Posted by -=SPECTRE=-

A good comprimise may be removing certain columns from posted logs that may reveal vendor tuning methods - accel enrichment, for example. The key fields really seem to be RPM, timing advance, knock sum, airflow, and a couple of others. Timing advance -could- reveal a little bit but if you're having problems and are posting your logs, chances are the timing numbers that are being logged are not going to correspond with what's in the maps. I think the only fair way to decide if posting logs is a violation is to identify what exactly is being revealed. Not for selfish reasons but to prove the validity of the concerns of tuners over the posting of evoscan logs.

Originally Posted by bigd

Your hypocrisy appears to be boundless.

Rediculing people here who are trying to learn out of a genuine enthusiasm for their car is pretty low. It seems as if you think the plebeians here are nothing but ***** or theives.

The problem with EVERYONE learning is that it is threatening to you. So rather than embrace the sharing of the new found knowledge you rail against it to protect yourself. EVERYONE here can become an expert. EVERYONE here has a right to the opportunity to understand their car and work on it. If EVERYONE here knowing what you know would put you out of business, then YOU should probably be spending less time criticising people on internet forums for thinking they could possibly share your mastery and more time considering how your business might benefit.

Originally Posted by bhcevo

If you think this "expectation" of yours is reasonable then you are smoking the bad crack.

The moment you objected to logs is the moment I started suspecting that the quality of your product is poor. I'm not the only one entertaining doubts now.

The suggestion on your part that your map is "reverse engineerable" from log data is a laughable suggestion, from both an engineering and legal perspective.

Lastly, your objection to logs is a slap in the face to the evo community at large.

You do not have our best interests at heart. Never post here again. Thank you.

Originally Posted by l2r99gst

IOne last thing about the removal of logs....someone said that it was laughable that a map can be reverse engineered from a log. I totally disagree. Show me a few logs from a car and I can reverse engineer the timing map pretty easily.


Eric

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

You can spin it however you feel you may want to manipulate the situation to make us look like we are in the wrong. No one has been ridiculed. I pointed out two instances where the log was interpreted incorrectly. If that is riduculing, than no one will ever learn any anything from this thread.

People aren't learning about their car, people are trying to learn about KOEvo's car. If they want to learn about their car, post yours and their logs and I will help you analyze it.

This should solve your problem right? You want to learn about your car, correct? So post your maps and logs and let me help you understand them. I suspect that is not your intention however and you are upset that you are not able to absorb KOEvo's tuned map info for free.

TTP will soon have a solution for the masses. Stay tuned for further info. I think it will solve many ECUFlash users thirst for knowledge. Now testing it under a pilot program.

Originally Posted by bigd

Your actions speak for themselves. I wish you well.

Originally Posted by MANGOOK

Originally Posted by MalibuJack

I agree with TTP with the current availability of maps.. At the moment, there is a lack of "time tested" maps created by enthusiasts, this will change, but it takes time. The truth is most maps your going to see are going to be totally unsuitable for your own car, just the nature of tuning.

But I am a little shocked at the removing of logs.. I can understand not posting the map.. The logs however are a diagnostic tool, given enough time you can extract useful data on a map from it, but its no longer a map or any property of the tuner.

I do think people are getting a little knock crazy though.. I posted earlier in this thread, or in another thread about how the ECU seems to respond to knock.

Knock is something engines have ALWAYS dealt with.. Its something you will ALWAYS get.. Minimizing knock is a good thing, but you won't eliminate it, keeping counts as low as possible under varying conditions is the goal. The truth is, its rare that you will get sustained drastic bouts of knock that will do immediate damage unless you are tuned on the very edge, and then force the engine to continue to perform. Damage to bearings, pistons, etc, are due to tuning, either too much cylinder pressure (timing), detonation, or too lean, but generally it happens over a sustained period of time until it finally fails.

Does this mean you can throw caution to the wind? Of course not.. Careless tuning reduces the life of your engine and it will ultimately perform worse than a properly tuned engine. However low knock counts, periodic random knock (generally noise) is unavoidable and sometimes just can't be completely eliminated. This is where tuner experience is absolutely worth the money for his time.. A tuner understands the difference.. This is why the ECU generally pulls timing momentarily when you get high knock counts in a short period of time, but alters the octane number when these knock counts don't subside over time.

also, a knock count of 3 at 2500rpm, is SUBSTANTIALLY different than a knock count of 3 at 6000rpm, this is where those knock filters come in, they set the threshold for the intensity and volume of different frequencies. A knock signature at 6000rpm becomes harder to discriminate from noise, because the background noise is so much greater.. Thats why low counts are important to watch, but its more important to watch how the ECU responds to it.

Unfortunately this goes out the window when you change the harmonics of the engine (removing the balance shafts, or a stroker motor) Even wear on the pistons and rings will generate more noise over time.