Blood, sweat and tears is more along the lines, than anything monetary.

Any tuner could think back to how their knowledge evolved over the years and how long it took to get there. Writing a book on it and giving it away is what is being asked for. It is unrealistic.

Anyone expecting a vendor to data dump all they know, likely live at home and get a weekly allowance on top of their car insurance paid for by mom and dad is my analogy.

 

You know what I love about all this. I love how Ecuflash is empowering those who are willing to put the time and effort into tuning their own cars and telling the tuners to take a hike.

It is really refreshing to see this. I love the learning, the exchange of ideas from people like jcsbanks, malibu, ludi, Ecric and Razor as well as others. In my book these ar the true heroes of this community. They give freely and demand nothing in return.

I wish that someday I can become as knowledgeable as they are. I thank them for sharing with us and helping us tune our cars.

Ecuflash, Evoscan have really broken down the tuning barriers. The masses of DIYers are at the gates of the tuning fort and they are battering down the gates. The experts are scared and they want to do whatever is in there power to prevent the spread of knowleadge. They will not be successful.

 

The above is true but just like everything else in life is it's allways hands down to experience.

The key here is to first use someone elses experience and purchace a good custom base flash, then with the EcuFlash/Evoscan use all the time in the world to make fine tunes on increment at a time.

Hell, after several years we will all be pros, but if a psycho like hilary clinton becomes Pres, cars with over 180 whp will be banned

 

to me that all 8 map is ugly.

if I knew a lot of stuff I would help people but not spill my guts

 

Is this what you call professionalism? I even asked you directly if you would guarantee me a better tune...I'm all ears and have my wallets open, but I never got one iota of a response. =/

p.s. if you look carefully, my logs are posted, just not on the Honduhlike forum we call Norcalevo.net. lol ..but wait now, are you asking me to post a log of another tuner's ecu rom? O.o

..as i said before, irony at its finest!

 

The point is you have double standard. ***** and whine that KOEvo removed the logs, but refused to post your logs on NorCalEvo.

This is of course after you stole another guy's map.

And are you asking if I can tune better than this joke of a tune EIP gave you two guys. Bwahhahaha!

I am assuming that is rhetorical. No wonder you are so sore that when a real tuner map is posted and then removed. After all, this is what you are coming from.

Garbage.





What is funny is you refuse to post your 100% TPS pulls because they knock so bad. The one instance of 100% TPS for a few thousand rpm was knock city.

ST's Tune from EIP
I suspect the knock would have continued had you stayed in the throttle.

 

What was posted was NOT a tuner's map. What was posted was a log and a poorly executed log at that. I saw the second log and commented on it, before it was removed. KOevo started his log at 3200 rpm and ended it at 6800 rpm. That is not a good log that will allow people to steal TTP's tune from. A good log starts at 2500 rpm and goes all the way 7400 rpm. We do not even know under what conditions KO conducted his log. Was it done on a flat smooth surface? How many logs did he do before this one that he posted?

No one even asked KO where he got his tune from. No one even cared until TTP came into this thread and made an issue from it.

 

3200-6800 is basically 3000-7000 which is 90% of the timing log.

It is not the fact that it was an anonymous tune. It was the fact that it was my work being broadcast and I am a vendor here.

If I could address it again, I should have contacted KOEvo privately, but there would have still been a bunch of complaining about where the log went.

 

lol, this is getting really comical.

first and foremost, i did not post my logs on norcal, because i would not succomb to the bs there. as you can see, i have no qualms about it here, especially if it is contributing to a greater cause.

secondly, i did not "steal" anything especially when someone has it public, or are you condoning your customers posting their tuner maps online?!!! O.o

Third, I was actually considering another tuner (for reasons below), even yourself (albeit after this unprofessional incident, I doubt it) - note that i did not post at all publicly on evom after your tirade on that thread.

Lastly, i have had more stuff done to the vehicle AFTER the tune and realize i do need another retune. fwiw - what i posted is my nonstop pulls for roughly 15 minutes around town (and if i stayed on the throttle consecutively i would of hit boost/fuel cut and/or a wall lol)...if you are saying otherwise, you really are smoking some good crack, or do you pretend to know more then the originator?


it's really sad that you have a facade as a professional shop to the evo community, yet bash on likely customers (and other tuners) left and right. i did find it hilarious your posts about a certain individual in the supra forums, but after this incident i don't know what to think. the more i see your replies (and antics), the more it remind me of the one individual you despise and put down readily.

again, irony at its finest.

 

Someone else's log is not your property. Get that through your skull.

He did the runs. He used his own hardware and software, that he owns, on his own time to do his own measurements.

That log is 100% his own work. Your claim to it is weak, both legally and morally.

Consumers have the right to be informed about the quality of their purchases. The right of consumers to share this information with each other is typically upheld in the courts.

Vendors who try to stifle the rights of consumers to be informed appear at a minimum as greedy, uncompetitive and anti-capitalist. At worst they are crooks who are selling snake-oil.

I am not the only informed, educated consumer and professional on these boards who understands the implications of your behavior. Your own behavior is damning you...not what I say. Get a clue.

 

I posted some information earlier, either in this thread (which has gotten way off topic) or in another similar thread..

It was pretty specific too.. Its based on observed information, what my ECU Is actually doing, since we haven't gotten the disassembly of the ECU's code far enough along to see any algorithms.

 

This is just not a legitimate argument.. I can extrapolate a tune from ANY data log that shows timing.. The fueling portion isn't magic, neither is timing.. Some tools are better than others for collecting data, but if someone really wanted to get a good log, from a "Mystery box" you get the data by observation, and use a tool to collect that information. There is *NOTHING* anyone can legally do about that. Not only that, but the logs are in no way *ANYONES* property but the owner of the tool and the "mystery box"

This changes nothing about a tuner or a tune.. When you get your car tuned, you are paying for the tuners expertise and experience.. The logs, maps, and results are the property of the OWNER OF THE CAR.. Not posting maps was a decision made by EvoM to respect the tuners in the community who would prefer their work not be posted. But understand that there is no legal basis of this decision.

Not allowing posting of logs.. Well thats just unreasonable.. Are you saying that members with custom work on their car cannot post photos of these custom mods for fear that someone else might copy the work?

I have tuners frequently asking me for thoughts, ideas, help with tools, and other things.. Does that mean I should ask for money for my answers? And then in tern swear them to secrecy and request that they not use any of the information or tools I provide with custom cars?

This is way offtopic for this thread.. But this is also the first time any tuner had ever requested a log not be posted (at least publically) And ya know what.. If you never brought up the fact that you can derive a tune from a good log, nobody would have even realized it.

You know whats even more interesting? Deriving a tune from a log is sometimes better, Why? Because your capturing the resulting timing after its been altered for less than optimum conditions.. you can then refine that and get a better tune..

What if I told you that I was writing a logger that could auto-fill a grid of cells that looks like a timing map after doing driving and pulls? What if I told you I could also auto-fill the AFR values in the map.. It will also trace the cells in your actual map.. I'm just working on the comm routines to get a MUT Stream then all of these things will come along..

Now, I have only used the data output from my own software, through a hardware device, from an ECU, I can generate a good map and create a patch file to allow it to be merged into a stock Rom... I have done nothing Illegal, wrong, or immoral.. Not only that, but the data I have collected and extracted is even more useful.

My whole point is tuners need to spend their time making customers happy and not policing forums for maps and logs that are now legally their customers property.

TTP, this was not directed at you, just a general rant.. I do generally agree with some of your points considering I also do professional work for hire (software, hardware, configuration, etc..) But I understand that if the work I do is a derivation of other work, I have no legal right to the result. The way I handle derivative works, is to extract and document all my alterations, print it out, and protect that data and copyright.. I doesn't change that the resulting work may not have any legal grounds to collect damages or recourse, but it becomes a tool in my own defense should the work I contribute be added to another derivative work that is then sold..

Unfortunately I think its probably time to request that the moderators lock this thread.

 

But why out of five consecutive logs only the 3rd one had knock (substantial knock)? The others had same timing (methanol induced) and 1 -2 counts at the most.

All I can figure is when the load shifts to the right at accellerated rate (like 50 to 100 TPS at 6000 rpm) the ECU will think it's pinging, or the car actually will start pinging from whatever - fuel demands, cyl psi.

 

How do you come up with 14*? Looks closer to 11 or 12 to me.

 

[QUOTE=ST]I don't see the point and playing cat and mouse with your logs. You are obviously embarrassed with the tune. What more is there to lose. You complain about KOEvo's log, then I explain I will help the forum decipher their own logs, but it is not good enough. The only log a found of yours is a short random drive with a few seconds of wot that was knocking.

What?

Then why pretend you have a great tune and great tuning skills. Just come out with it and ask for help. Ask the Ecuflash forum for advice and if you have your cable we would enjoy "helping you fix" your junk tune. Would we custom tune it for free? No. Would we help you understand why it is so bad and what needs to change? Sure.

The log I found in your evom post history like I said earlier was a few minutes of normal driving with a short burst of WOT where you were knocking. If there is some other "15 min of WOT pulls" log floating around, you are welcome to bring it to my attention so the forum can help you with it. Again, non evom vendors do not have the same restrictions as posting evom vendor data.

If we are fired upon, you will hear our side of things, that is for sure. We are not the pushover vendor that will stand for a barrage gunfire and just sit there and pretend we have not seen the posts like some other vendors. We have more of a deal with it out in the open policy and get to the bottom of both sides opinions so we can better understand where each side of the opinion is coming from -type mentality.

I am not a member of supraforums as far as I know, but I have seen the thread you are speaking of where AMS, Turbotrix and Dynoflash fought each other over the definition of a "street car" as it was posted on evom and other forums. I have no problem with Al and he, neither with us. We obviously have two different tuning styles however.