I also use to have a block of 8 mail in flash too all because I wanted boost cut removed, Once I got a datalogger and saw that knock I couldn't believe I was driving around like that..then I saw the map behind the knock, and then I was saved by ecuflash Thank you COLBY!! I feel the only real possible way to do a mail in flash is like TTP is doing it, I would recommend everyone datalog first, send the log to the tuner and let them go from there for a mail in type flash. That way the tuner can have sometype of idea of what the car is doing rather than throwing timing at the car based on 3000 other evo's, if you look at my sig, the person doing mail in flashes even calls you a fool for not getting your 30,000.00 car custom tuned.

 

I recently put in a set of 272 cams and had to retune quite a bit to make the car happy, I mention this because, in it's current configuration, I had to go to vertical blocking.. tappering down from low load to high load, to keep the car from knocking where it is making the most torque.

I previously had good luck adding 1 degree per 500 rpm block going up the rpm range, then 2 degrees just past peak torque, then 3 degrees up top. I found that after adding cams and cam gears (-2i,-1e) I had to keep the timing flat moving up the rpm range to keep the car from knocking. so for example:

These numbers are just to illustrate what I'm talking about, not what I am actually running. obviously, the cams and gears changed the VE and moved paek torque further up the rev range, but in addition, it seems to be much more sensitive to timing change (ramp rate) through the fat part of the torque curve.

 

I agree with your point, but I think some folks may not interpret what you are saying correctly. I think it is safer to take your proven highoctane map, paste it over the low octane map then pull a couple of few degrees of timing from the whole map. Reason being there may well be places the stock low octane map that have you running higher timing than the tuned high octane map.. not what you want if the ecu is trying to interpolate between high and low maps to get knock under control.

I take my high octane maps (fuel and timing) paste them over the low maps then pull two degrees from the timing map and subtract .2 from the fuel map, that may be too conservative for some, and next time around I may richen the low fuel map a little more (.3).

 

I've seen a couple custom tuned evo timing maps that run timing before peak tq in the mid teens and at peak tq low teens. Instead of large blocks of 8 there are large blocks of 14-16 and 10-12. Is 8* really considered that rediculous?

 

If 8* is ridiculous for all tunes, teens at peak tq is just plain ****ing stupid.

 

Neither car showed knock over 6 counts on pure 93 octane..

???

 

Any knock with timing like that could have been avoided by tuning with less timing. So to repeat TTP...its just plain ****ing stupid to throw too much timing at a car. If it doesnt need it or its more advance than is needed for the fuel there is no point.

 

I know of one case where an AEMEMS tuned car had an inadvertant Subaru map, e.g 14.5* peak.

Oh yeah, it blew up allright, fast

 

Man I have heard some stories about people (not to drop names like busted solutions or anything) "tuning" and aem by flatfilling the high load areas at like 15 degrees or so from idle on up...... Can't say for sure cause i never saw it myslef,never even looked at an aem setup myself.. point is there are people out there that are happy to take someones money and give them ****e in return.

If an 8 or 9 can actually take high timing at peak torque and true 22psi (not based on what a boost gauge says) I would tend to think something is not correct with the ignition system and it is being compensated for by extra advance in the maps....

 

........240 260
3000 ..13 13
...........11 10
...........11 10
4500 ..11 10
Sorry about the formatting. lol

edit: My car won't run near this timing wihtout seeing large counts of knock. Fwiw i think alot of that has to do my white tortoise...

 

my goodness .. you sure its using 93 octane and not with alky ??

I run slightly than this up to load range 300 and I have to have tonnes of alky sprayed otherwise it'll just knock itself silly and exploade

Even at peak torque at 300 loadsite, I'm running only 8* timing (Gee is that a magic number??)

Overseas and hating it ..

 

100% 93 octane.

I'm just trying to show that it is possible to run that much timing without large amounts of knock on 93. My car on the same gas cannot run this much...

 

I dont get it how can you show that it is possible if you are saying your car cannot?

 

I got those cells from a tune on 2 cars that run that timing just fine. I was adding that on the same gas, same day, my car will not. It is possible for them and not me, and I gave my thoughts on why...

 

yaah with 93 octain i dont even run over 5 degrees of timing at tq spike otherwise i get one or two counts of knock