How to tune for more torque??
Dec 26, 2006, 06:29 PM
#17
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Your mivec map is in your ignition area of ecuflash.
There are 2 maps...one is labelled "do not use" or something like that. hehe. I'm not sure why.
I added (increased) values below 3500.
This was me just messing around though. I don't own a dyno so it's hard for me to test results.
Dec 26, 2006, 08:39 PM
#20
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This is what I have been messing with the past few days. It's rather simplistic right now, but eventually sometime I'll be back at the dyno for some fine tuning of it.
Definately don't take this and throw it in your car. It will absolutely affect your AFR's.
Definately don't take this and throw it in your car. It will absolutely affect your AFR's.
Dec 27, 2006, 03:31 AM
#24
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Horsepower and torque are the NOT independent variables...horsepower equals torque times engine speed. HP = torque X rpms.
If you want to maximize your peak hp you just need to maximize your torque at high engine speeds (near redline). This often involves sacrificing your midrange (peak) torque. I hope its obvious why maximing your torque at high engine speeds gives you big hp. Think about the relationship hp = torque X rpms.
In otherwords to tradeoff torque for hp you need to be able to shift the powerband. Pretty much only camgears, camshafts, or MIVEC do this.
The stock camgears pretty much give you peak torque at the expense of peak hp. So if you want a lotta torque keep your cam gears near 0/0 (intake/exhaust).
If you want to sacrifice your early torque peak for a better pull up top you need to retard your intake and exhaust cams. Try -2/-2, -3/-3, -5/-1, etc...
More boost, more timing and leaner afrs all you give you more torque, and hence more hp, without affecting the shape of the powerband. See hp = torque X rpms. So if you want more "torque" just do one or more of the three above.
If you specifically want to sacrifice peak hp in order to get more peak torque...your tune cannot do this. Camshafts and camgears can. Since you tune independently for each RPM and load condition...you can tune to optimize torque (and hence hp) at every engine speed.
Think about it. Sacrificing peak hp means sacrificing torque at high engine speeds. This would mean richening up your afrs and reducing timing in the appropiate maps for all cells above say 5000 rpms.
Increasing peak torque means leaning out your afrs and adding timing between 3000 and 5000 rpms.
How are the two above activities related? They are not related at all. There is no reason why detuning the car above 5000 rpms would allow you to tune it more aggressively below 5000 rpms.
Does reducing my timing from 12 to 10 degrees at 6k rpms and 240 load magically allow me to increase my timing from 4 to 6 degrees at 3k rpms and 240 load? Nope.
I'm not sure how MIVEC tables work but I don't think changing the MIVEC settings at 6k rpms affects the MIVEC settings at 4k rpms...so even with MIVEC you can't "sacrifice peak hp to get more peak torque".
If you want to maximize your peak hp you just need to maximize your torque at high engine speeds (near redline). This often involves sacrificing your midrange (peak) torque. I hope its obvious why maximing your torque at high engine speeds gives you big hp. Think about the relationship hp = torque X rpms.
In otherwords to tradeoff torque for hp you need to be able to shift the powerband. Pretty much only camgears, camshafts, or MIVEC do this.
The stock camgears pretty much give you peak torque at the expense of peak hp. So if you want a lotta torque keep your cam gears near 0/0 (intake/exhaust).
If you want to sacrifice your early torque peak for a better pull up top you need to retard your intake and exhaust cams. Try -2/-2, -3/-3, -5/-1, etc...
More boost, more timing and leaner afrs all you give you more torque, and hence more hp, without affecting the shape of the powerband. See hp = torque X rpms. So if you want more "torque" just do one or more of the three above.
If you specifically want to sacrifice peak hp in order to get more peak torque...your tune cannot do this. Camshafts and camgears can. Since you tune independently for each RPM and load condition...you can tune to optimize torque (and hence hp) at every engine speed.
Think about it. Sacrificing peak hp means sacrificing torque at high engine speeds. This would mean richening up your afrs and reducing timing in the appropiate maps for all cells above say 5000 rpms.
Increasing peak torque means leaning out your afrs and adding timing between 3000 and 5000 rpms.
How are the two above activities related? They are not related at all. There is no reason why detuning the car above 5000 rpms would allow you to tune it more aggressively below 5000 rpms.
Does reducing my timing from 12 to 10 degrees at 6k rpms and 240 load magically allow me to increase my timing from 4 to 6 degrees at 3k rpms and 240 load? Nope.
I'm not sure how MIVEC tables work but I don't think changing the MIVEC settings at 6k rpms affects the MIVEC settings at 4k rpms...so even with MIVEC you can't "sacrifice peak hp to get more peak torque".
Last edited by bhcevo; Dec 27, 2006 at 03:45 AM.
Dec 27, 2006, 03:41 AM
#25
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The use of pump gas seems to limit the peak torque attainable by most evos to somewhere between 300 and 350 ft-lbs. This is regardless of turbo, cams, etc..
Even on pump gas you can break 400 whp because you get mods that keep your torque high even as the engine speed approaches redline. These are typical breathing mods....cams, big turbo etc..
It is very very common to see 400+ whp big turbo evos....with under 350 ft-lbs torque...on pump gas.
Most any evo you see that breaks much above 350 ft-lbs torque is using some "high" octane fuel.
Here in CA with 91 octane getting BIG torque is a huge PITA.
Even on pump gas you can break 400 whp because you get mods that keep your torque high even as the engine speed approaches redline. These are typical breathing mods....cams, big turbo etc..
It is very very common to see 400+ whp big turbo evos....with under 350 ft-lbs torque...on pump gas.
Most any evo you see that breaks much above 350 ft-lbs torque is using some "high" octane fuel.
Here in CA with 91 octane getting BIG torque is a huge PITA.
Dec 27, 2006, 09:25 AM
#26
Sophie you can find more low end by incorporating parts of the JDM RS map as well. Currently thats kinda what Dudical has (albeit modified) and last time one of my maps went to a Mustang around here, it showed peak torque was indeed at 3160 rpm (about a 300 rpm move to the left as it were).
The map that you are using is good at or near peak load, but you can help the spool (not like it needs alot of help) by bringing that amount of advance in early at lower loads as well. If it were me I would curve the the areas between 90-140% to match your peak 28.2* section a little more linear. Otherwise thats a great looking map for BIG torque at low rpm.
The map that you are using is good at or near peak load, but you can help the spool (not like it needs alot of help) by bringing that amount of advance in early at lower loads as well. If it were me I would curve the the areas between 90-140% to match your peak 28.2* section a little more linear. Otherwise thats a great looking map for BIG torque at low rpm.
Last edited by JohnBradley; Dec 27, 2006 at 09:29 AM.
Dec 27, 2006, 10:37 AM
#27
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Sophie you can find more low end by incorporating parts of the JDM RS map as well. Currently thats kinda what Dudical has (albeit modified) and last time one of my maps went to a Mustang around here, it showed peak torque was indeed at 3160 rpm (about a 300 rpm move to the left as it were).
The map that you are using is good at or near peak load, but you can help the spool (not like it needs alot of help) by bringing that amount of advance in early at lower loads as well. If it were me I would curve the the areas between 90-140% to match your peak 28.2* section a little more linear. Otherwise thats a great looking map for BIG torque at low rpm.
The map that you are using is good at or near peak load, but you can help the spool (not like it needs alot of help) by bringing that amount of advance in early at lower loads as well. If it were me I would curve the the areas between 90-140% to match your peak 28.2* section a little more linear. Otherwise thats a great looking map for BIG torque at low rpm.
Right now my peak torque occurs at roughly 3500.
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