it might be - i'd say try it and see how it works for you...

 

Could we get pre patched 9653 v7 roms?

 

12-14 inches from the turbo is pretty good. Because of the length of the headers on Subies, I think the O2 sensor is more than 12 inches from the exhaust port.

 

I am nearly sure you will be destroying lots of widebands if you put it in the stock front O2 location.

As far as your question about whether it will be "more accurate" or "faster" using this patch - the answer is probably a big "No". If you read how the patch works you would understand it simulates the swing of a narrowband sensor when near the preset wideband AFR. That said, you are adding another calculation and purposeful inaccuracy to the system to make it play nice with the stock fuel control routines. This is neither faster, nor more accurate... probably less of both, but the idea is tighter control over fuel trims, not accuracy. The stock narrowband sensor is perfectly accurate at sensing/maintaining a 14.7:1 AFR.

 

Using the simulated NB signal will be plenty accurate for controlling closed loop AFR. Its speed will be limited to the speed of the WB sensor system and how far back it is placed in the exhaust line. Innovate claims that their system for controlling and measuring the signal from the Bosch sensor is extremely fast, but you'd want to ask them how fast it is compared to a NB sensor. Couldn't say about other WB systems. Distance from the exhaust port definitely matters for closed loop where exhaust flow is relatively low.

 

The determining factor is how far down stream the wideband O2 is located. NB sensors are more heat resistant and located much closer to the engine.

 

It seems that there's plenty of people running widebands in the stock location in the o2 sensor with no issues after years. I sure like the stock location as well, the response is so much faster.

 

EGTs are lower past turbo but the bung temperature (O2 housing) at stock location is hot and exceeds O2 sensor specs. Every car and driving style is different but you may run into accuracy or short sensor life span issues.

 

since some brands don't like too much heat it would be helpful if you suggested brands known to work in the oe narrow-band spot.

as an example I would not recommend the Innovate piece as they actively proclaim not to place the piece up close to the heat

 

the sensor used on most popular widebands (innovate) are off the shelf bosch units that are used on production vehicles and can be purchased under 60.00 at your local auto parts store.

 

maybe it would be better (on my part) to point out the method Innovate uses in their o2 readings renders their outputs worthless when the piece feels too much heat.
I guess that means the bosch part can work in hot locations but not under the Innovate methodology. (?)

 

Sorry, the way I stated that came off a little wrong, I needed to shake the cobwebs out.

I believe this simulated system is less accurate than both a 6 wire factory wideband system and a 4 wire factory narrowband system. If you follow the wideband manufacturers instructions the sensor will probably be further away, and because we are piggybacking routines it might be less accurate.

That said, it is perfectly accurate for narrowband control and the purpose intended. The point of my post was that it is not for "gaining accuracy", but it doesn't need to. Narrowband control is pretty "easy" in this whole mess of things. (MrFred might argue with me here after his fuel routine disassembly ). So, you are not really losing anything, but just gaining more control.

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In any case, WBO2 sensor placement has been beat to death a few times. Some people go for a long time with it in the stock front O2 location, other people burn through 2 sensors in a summer like I did on my 2g DSM.

Both AEM and Innovate recommend placing sensors > 12" from the exhaust outlet. The can obviously change in turbo / NA cars where there is more heat building up in a turbo car's exhaust manifold. Place the sensor where you think is best based on research, and report back to one of the many wonderful threads about it

 

Innovate are sticklers for complete accuracy, oh Clause. Factory cars are probably built with a bigger margin of error from the AFR sensing all the way through to the programmed AFR. This changes a bit when you are expecting customers to run crazy full race setups.

That said, you probably should strive for accuracy, and I would follow their direction if it were up to me.

 

Innovate WB systems will not give a reading when they are unable to make the sensor operate within the required temperature range. Unfortunately, after the controller has decided that it cannot maintain the required temperature, it will not try again later. The LC-1 has to be power cycled for it to try again.

 

Just for reference, here is a pic of how close the Audi with equipped Bosch WB (stock) is to the turbo. These things hardly ever go bad and we can monitor the temp of these with the scan tools to set readiness....we see normal temps of 500*C at idle, over 600*C at 2K with no load, etc.

The AEM is obviously a Bosch unit, not sure what other companies use, so I would be confident with the stock location. Not trying to stir up anything, just laying down some numbers.