I'm pretty sure he'll only be makin te 94170015 patchh at first so you'll probably need to upgrade from your 94170008 rom to the 94170015.

 

When the 88590015 is ready... let me know! I will test it. Very good patch indeed.

Props to you tephra!

joed.rodriguez at GMAIL

 

94170015 here




no one should be using 94170008 or 94170014.

 

I'd like to test it but I'm still waiting on my replacement for the bum tactrix cable that died It should be here any day now.

96940011 05 model ecu

 

Not much free space in that ROM, so I doubt tephra will be able to patch that one. You may have to use the 96530006 replacement.

 

It's nice to see that there are some people out there looking for a real solution to this problem as opposed to pointing fingers. There are too many shops that try to pass the blame because of their incompetence and lack of performance background and tuning knowledge.

Derek, please refer to my comment above. We just finished working with a customer that had similar problems as you did. Unlike you he took our advice and went to an experienced tuner who immediately found the problems and they problems went away. Anyone who blames phantom knock on how a shortblock is assembled is a joke and doesn't have the slightest inkling of how an engine operates. It's easier to blame someone else to make yourself look good.

I seem to remember that Chads personal car experienced the same problem, too. We built him an engine that ran very well, made excellent power and he was pleased. Then he took it apart after bragging about how he "missed the tune", puts it back together himself and all of a sudden there is a problem that he wants to blame on us. I guess he left that part out of the story that he told you.

Until you find the root cause of your problem, please refrain from the unjustified comments that show your ignorance.

 

Well that's a completely on topic valuable post relevant to the discussion.

 

Go back on the first couple pages and read where he was knocking our product.

 

Here we go with JAM again...

I never said anything about you in this thread. I said we were told we were the only ones with this issue... did i say you said that?

interesting, NO.

but go ahead and try to bash our tuning.... look at our vendor review..... seems we do a nice job.

regardless you are ridiculous to deal with, and im not talking about your builds, but your professionalism... you send me a PM personally attacking us with things not even related to evo stuff...

A stock ecu uses a many variables to measure what it determines as knock.... things such as rod tolerances, clearances, etc all affect what it thinks is knock..... therefor a build (different than a stock motor) will make different noises and harmonics.... which the ECU will still be evaluating the knock based on its factory engine noise tables...

sounds realistic to me.

looking forward to the patch guys... it would be much easier than going to AEM.

cheers

cb

 

I can agree to that - I had a JAM sales guy tell me off in a PM because I stated in post that the SS stud kit they sell is over priced. I mean really how childish must one get over someone voicing his/her opinion.

anyway back on topic.......(had to get my stab in - sorry)

Tephra - Cant wait to try this patch out....been waiting for this for a very long time!

 

So what do you do to change the dwell of a 2.3L stroker at TDC?

I know I know you turn down the balance shaft, clearance the pistons correctly, and run the proper HLA's.

All stroker motors will have issues on an evo ecu. They can and will pick up the differences in the geometry of the motor. The person you had a problem with complained of a JAM "knocker". That is to say that his motor isn't happy to deal with a stock ecu. Many properly build motors aren't happy with the stock ecu. You read into it too far and over reacted.

I can over react too. Why don't you forget your glory days with Sean and sponsor an evo that dips into the 8's. Better yet why not beat out the Canadians and bring the title of the fastest 4g63 in the world back to the USA. As you put it your the expert and it should be no big problem.

 

Not that anyone really cares but heres my 2cents.

i would prefer to have my engine built by a shop that tunes, builds, and runs evos that understands how the factory knock system works instead of one that just assembles engines....

HMMM. Chad is a bad tuner? and to think he is the only person besides myself or one other that i would have tune my car....
I have been there plenty of times when he is tuning 2.3s. He shows me the maps and logs and some look normal some dont normal.

Nobody is saying that its real knock. Just that the sensor is picking up the harmonics. I have dealt with this myself and its very frustrating to try and tune. Octane levels dip so far down your runs are shot before you go wot.

I'm also really looking forward to terpha getting this done. Seems like its a pretty common thing around here. Not just one or two cars

 

As we mod our cars and we start putting the mileage on them its gonna become more and more necessary to alter the parameters for the knock sensor and stuff. From valvetrain noises, worn mounts, the usual rattles and engine wear its no wonder everyone is seeing phantom knock.

 

I think its funny how some engines are noisy and others arent, even assembled by the same tech.

Case in point:

Turbojunkie (Billy) had us build a JE 9.5:1 motor for E85 and the car is "quiet". Lucas 10:1 alloy rod motor is "quiet". Okay so at this point you are saying that oh its because its on E85 or I am lying, right?

At the same time we did a build for another customer, a 9:1 JE for dual fuel, BC280s, and it phantom knocks like a *****. The piston wall is set loose on all these motors (.0055-.006), none of them have balance shafts, they all use the same manufacturer for pistons, use the same brand of clutch (2 are exedy twins and one is a triple), and were assembled at the same shop by the same guy.

I honestly think it has nothing to do with the assembly, and more with how finicky the stock ECU is too the "knock frequency". For sake of argument lets assign it a value, 10khz. So is it silicon content, thrust bearings, oil, etc. that make the difference or is it really truly random?

To add to what Charlie said, switching to an AEM on one of these cars after having extensively logged what "noise" looked like in knock voltage, I can personally say if the car knocks now its impossible to distinguish in the logs from what the stock ECU records. I dont think its impossible to tune an AEM and make good power but its knock control is primitive in comparison to Mitsu's.

 

To add a data point I built a 9.5 piston/wall clearance motor for my DSM two years a go as an experiment. Looser is faster right? Well guess what, it was freking fast. 122mph on a 14b. Still on a stock ecu with stock knock sensor stuff. It doesn't even seem that piston noise matters and this thing was a slapper for sure