Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Ok ok ok... so when all you smart fellas were off playing with WG tables I turned a knob on a mbc. I'd like to play too now.


I have read through dozens of dozens- of pages of this stuff and it's turning my brain into silly puddy.
96530006 ROM
-I have JDM Map
-I have GM BCS
-(I'm already SD w/maft pro)

I have Teph's 7.6 rom on the car to try some of this stuff out. I used Phenem's xml incorporating mrfreds boost control mods. And I just do not get it. If you read any of the old threads - things have evolved. I want gear/based psi boost control gosh darnit. And none of the other threads really give a primer on how to use this stuff. There are many of you out there already using this stuff. I can tune an ebc. I used an avcr for years. I am familiar with how the rpm/speed switchover points work. It works very similarly. I understand target boost - I understand WGDC, I think I get correction.

But I'm at a loss for really where to start. Moving from the 96940011 rom I have a ton of new tables concerning turbo's and boost I have never seen before. I read how the initial load based system (stock) was supposed to work. I think I understand that. But this has evolved a few times since even the psi targeted boost control. Is there a specific thread I need to read? I've read the ones from evo kid and mrfred I think to the best of my ability.


To compound matters it is not a matter of comparing an example of some tables someone experienced was nice enough to post. I'm on a Tial 44mm and a 3076R. So I don't know where to start really. There has been changes to the MUT table - things moved around... And this is a new rom for me. So I don't have everything stored in quick handy noted sections like I did for my old rom.

What is step one?

Which of these tables do I use, don't I use, and where do I get the values for the speed/rpm points for the gears. I've seen bits and pieces of this stuff scattered through probably 6 or 7 different threads - mentioned here or there, corrected, corrected again...

It's really hard to find the necessary info in one place on this to make sense of it.


If this seems like an attempt to get spoon fed, I assure you. I have searched and read through probably a couple hundreds of pages of posts at least twice. Maybe I just missed what I was looking for. But I know Schniedes and Phenem among others are running this rom and ecu controlled boost.

Can I get a quick primer. I assure you I'm not an idiot. Just honestly a bit confused on where to start with this. GM BCS in hand. I can wire it up and start fooling around at leisure. It came today and I almost put it on until I realized even though I thought I understood this. I really don't.

Some input please.

nonschlont

iTrader: (3)

I might be able to be of some help here... W/ the new Tephra Rom to tune your boost control, you would use the 3D tables that he has in his Tephra Mods Section You will not use the Baseline boost and WGDC maps from before in the boost section! You can either delete them entirely, or you can edit them as un-used so you know, you dont use them. You might have to edit the 3D boost map from Load8 to psi8, so it will read in PSI instead of load%.
NOTE: this is what I did w/ v.6 NOT sure if this is necessary w/ the v7. I have not played w/ anything further than v.6, as my rom hasnt been done yet...

To get the data for the rpm/speed to gear table, you need to log RPM_SPEED_RATIO_AVERAGE and Gear. Go thru all of the gears @ a somewhat cruising pace, and see what you log. If theres a big difference between start and finish of each gear, as mine were, input the midpoint, that you know it will always hit, and then input that value in the rpm/speed to gear map!
You can find the info on this, in the beginning of the v.6 Testing thread.

W/ PSI based control, the only difference is shooting for boost, rather than load. Makes for much easier calculations. (for me anyways) Setting up the corrections is a lil different, cause you wont need as much duty cycle to correct. I will post up a SS of a few of my maps from v.6 Mainly the ones your looking to understand...

Theres only difference when tuning w/ a 3 port as opposed to the stock BCS, is its a lil more responsive, requires less duty cycle to achieve same boost levels, and it also hold boost better, but same concept! Oh and you wont be limited on peak boost! Love the 3 ports!

W/ the MUT table that is provided w/ the Tephra Rom, you would compare the 2, then copy over your old MUT table. There are a few changes in the tephra MUT table. @ 40 (Gear), @ 41 (1Byte Load), @ 42 (rpm speed average ratio) and 43 is MAT scaled. There is a couple more I believe, but I dont use them.

So basically your boost maps and rpm/speed to gear will look similar to this.
Note: IX, 5 speed. If you have a five speed gear box, then you would input 1 in the box w/ 6 (showing 6th gear) as you would never hit a value of 1, so it will never look to that...

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Yeah the speed to gear thing is what I think threw me.

I'm not using 88590615. Will the MUT addresses for 96530706 be the same to log for speed to gear? Like can I use the same requests as originally posted in the thread. I went back and re-read most of the thread and a few others late last night. I think that was my sticking point.

After looking at your tables it made more sense as well.

So basically I don't need 0 or 6. (Since I'm a 5 speed.)

I also think that my speed to gear will come up different than yours will being that I'm an 05 VIII. Not a IX. So do I need to rev through the gear like I normally would? Basically the value in the next gear just has to be outside the range of the previous gear right? So if I hit X(27) in one gear, then the next gear just has to be say X(30) which I cannot hit in the previous gear.

And is there any other stuff I need to fool with to get the boost control working? There are another half dozen tables in this xml concerning BDEL lo hi BWDC lo hi TBEC all under Turbo boost single solenoid. Then repeats under turbo, then again under teph's mods section...

If this all just concerns those couple tables this won't be a problem if I can get Speed to gear to log. At that point I think I'll be done being confused.

Thank you for the help so far.

nonschlont

iTrader: (3)

Im not sure on the MUT address's, but I think the gear ratio stuff might be the same, just copy over your MUT table and add the 3 or 4 new addreess's in.
You will definitely need to come up w/ your own rpm/speed to gear map, w/ the different gear ratios.
You are correct in your thinking of the logging of the rpm_speed_ratio_average.
For the hi and lo TBEC and WGDC, there is another map "Boost Control High/Low Gear Range RPM/MPH Crossover". You look up your gear ratio from the gear ratio pdf file floating around and choose which gear you wanna have as your hi's and your lows... 1, and 2 as low, and 3, 4, and 5 as high, or however you like, and input the vale in the map above.
Im not sure about all of the new maps, as I havent really looked at a new v7. Maybe they are the same defs. in there multiple times, not sure!

HAPPY 4TH!

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Owned by evoscan...

I cannot seem to add anything to the data xml. It simply repopulates however it was saved before. I've removed and installed it more times than I personally care to talk about. And adding the required items to log simply do not populate.

This program has never worked with any consistency for me. 2.6/b15 seemed to actually work for a change. But now I'm caught in the endless loop of whatever I do doesn't matter. It simply does whatever the hell it wants. The memory feature that seems to carry your sh*t forward does not allow you to fully wipe the program out. And then start over.

I've been fooling with it since my last post and am honestly about one more hour of this away from removing the program with my Remington 870.

I'm just going to uninstall the program with something other than evoscans uninstaller. Like a shredder. This is beyond aggravating.

-- Still cannot get it to dump its current settings and update with new logging requests. I have no idea.

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Ok I grabbed 2.6-16 and it seems to work. Thank god.

Ok, went out and logged speed/rpm / gear thingy.

1st gear: averaging 107-110 (set to 105?)
2nd gear: averaging 71-74 (set to 70?)
3rd gear: averaging 51-54 (set to 50?)
4th gear: averaging 37-39 ( set to 37?)
5th gear: averaging 25-28 (set to 25?)

I want to be over the value in the speed/gear table right? Teph said it snaps to the value so I assume I want to be over not under to prevent weirdness.

Ok now lets get into some of these tables. I took down the xml file edited by phenem to get an idea of the tables I would probably need to use (as he set them to psia already) So that means; find the changed tables- and they are probably the ones I need to pay attention to.

Here's the ones that are under turbo single solenoid;


"turbo"


tephs boost related tables in the mod section (Obviously I use all of these)


But if you look under turbo, there are maps there that have been rescaled to psia as well. Are you just using the 3D tables?

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

I put the GM BCS on the car today. My hallman rusted internally... and the spring broke.

Why can I not raise boost in the 3D tables above 24.6? Is there some kind of limit I need to remove somewhere?

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Also, MAX WGDC before "XXX" load will KILL you on a bigger ball bearing turbo and a EXWG.

I thought it wasn't working at first, I had my tables at 50% MWGDC / 160load.
Yeah... 28psi before I let off, and I rolled into it. Thank god for room in my tune and meth.

I dropped the max WGDC before X load to 100. It seems once the 30R gets up a head of steam the GM BCS cannot react fast enough to gate it down. Then it started hitting my 20psi initial target. Maybe a 1-2psi overshoot. (5th gear) And once I knew it was working I did a 4th 5th gear pull on the highway to check it. It over shot in 5th probably double (3-4psi) coming hot out of 4th, and going straight to WOT.

But it works. I just had to go down to 40% WGDC... as a base.

I'm seeing 20psi 1000rpm sooner now. It's ridiculous. I have to retune the car to account for this.

I have 18psi logged (jdm map) in at 3600 rpm in 4th gear. While initially scary it seems to be worth the trouble. Now how do I get the tables to go above 24.6psi?

MR Turco

iTrader: (16)

Where is this version 7 patch? is it fully released?

fixem2

iTrader: (30)

You need to change you base PSI. Look for the Boost Adder table, it is probably already set to 14.7 or so psi. The limit of the stock tables are 24.6 so you need to increase the boost adder to get higher boost.

Example: 14.7 = 1 ATM psi. So 24.6 is true boost. If you had 5 +14.7 = 19.7 (boost adder) then your 24.6 becomes 29.6.

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

No, not officially. Grab the V6 thread. Phenem posted 7.6 version roms with direct boost control xml mods and such in there. I just posted my own small thread because I needed some clarification on how some of this stuff worked.


So I'm at 1000ft. (997) So my boost adder would be 14.2. So say I add 5 = 19.2.
Now all my values in the BDEL table become 5psi higher? So 20psi now =25psi?

Basically the BDEL table has become my fuel table where the psi values become just "numbers".

I can deal with that. It sucks visually, but I just gained about 1000 rpm in spool up vs my broken mbc. So I'm not going to complain.

fixem2

iTrader: (30)

If you search for Frostyou, I beleive he setup an xml that allows better visual.

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

I assume it relates to this revised scaling post?

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/6778192-post592.html

But he says it changes the min settings? I didn't understand it fully because I am not using the original tables. Using the 3D tables that come with the new rom, and gear based.

I apologize for any unfamiliarity. But I'm kind of working backwards on the boost control stuff. Trying real hard to understand the stuff that came before. (I thoroughly read the load based stuff when it came out. But I missed all the direct boost control stuff when it initially became available.)

Asmodeus6

iTrader: (7)

Ok. I just ended up using boost adder to give me another 1.5psi or so. (targeting 26.XXpsi)

I went and did a 3rd gear pull, and a separate 4th gear pull. Then a 4th / 5th gear pull. Got some WGDC data and shoved it into the tables. Rounding down slightly.

I made some general guesses for the 1st / 2nd gear tables, spotty filled in 5th.

Now I get a 30psi spike. What is happening is the upwards correction is kicking in hard core. If it went off of my pre-defined WGDC it would not over shoot so horribly. The one 3rd gear pull it literally just forgot that 30psi wasn't the target I think. For nearly 1000 rpm.

My fuel maps are not tuned for 30psi. Luckily the meth covered the ugly, but she went 13-1 w/9* of timing and nearly 31psi. Not a single count of knock.

(lucky)

How do I keep it from up-correcting so much? (I'm seeing nearly 10% WGDC OVER my known 'close' WGDC.) And it's creating a big boost spike because it doesn't reel it in fast enough.

I don't want to turn all upwards correction off. I like that it adds WGDC to make the turbo spool faster. It's just not backing down fast enough. Is there a sweet spot I'm missing?



How about this? ^^^ If I cap correction at 2. Will I only land in 28psi range? I could live with that. Or will it still over-correct 10% WGDC and still cause a massive overshoot anyway as long as I'm still 2psi off of my target?

*Don't mind the 26 / 1.4. Those are just there to remind me of my boost adder and target boost.*