Well I do know for a fact that the knock sensor picks up surge as knock. I think thats what you might be fighting here.

 

Your ignition timing is way too retarded. So much so that it can INCREASE knocksums.

 

New one looks much healthier. Depending on where the load falls, you might even be a little high in upper rpms timing. You have a jump from 12 to 17* at 180-200 close to redline.

 

i was thinking the same.. i did learn this as well the either extreme of timing can cause knock.

 

You could use a lot more timing up top, thats pretty low.

Why you running no BOV?

 

Well mate you got everybodys input on this one.

 

seems like a whole lot of timing near idle. Try smoothing that out a bit too. How does the car drive? Is it jerky? smooth? raspy? how's your transition into boost?

Think about all these things and make small adjustments. If you do too drastic adjustments you won't know what's going on.

 

Thanks for all the info guys i appreciate it, this weekend ill be spending alot of time doing WOT runs logging and tuning the timing map

 

so i went out tonight did some tuning for about an hour and a half, blew a vac line off i couldnt fix till i got home so im done for now, the car was knocking at peak load because there wasnt enough timing, ive increased my peak load timing by about 4 degrees increased a few too redline, not knocking anymore on WOT runs woot!!!

car feels stronger too now VDR has got me at 315hp on 23.5psi of boost with 2 people in the car after about 15-20 WOT runs so the car was prob a little heat soaked too

Im happy

 

Widge hope you don't mind if I jump in with my timing map?

here is mine, is it OK?

 

Looks pretty good your running a fair amount of timing up top, hows it go? what mods?

 

That looks pretty good. Pretty smooth for the most part and timing doesn't look over advanced or too low.

You could probably run a bit more timing in the 3-4k rpm area in the higher loads. 1* at 210-250 is kinda low IMO.

This 93 octane?

 

Take a look at the 3D graph of your map, and use that to smooth the map out some more. It will improve your drive ability, and with a smooth map, you'll be able to run a little more timing.

here's the 3D graph of my map


I am running 3-4 more degrees in the 200 load and surrounding area than you are. The smooth map helps a lot, but takes A LOT of time to get right, because you want to make power and still keep it smooth. Takes some strategy, but worth it IMO.

Basically intake, full 3" turbo back exhaust, cams, stock 9 turbo, and hallman MBC spiking to 26 psi on 91 octane.

 

How do you end up with such a smooth looking 3D map?

I havent done too much smoothing since i tuned the other night with maptracer to remove my knock issues, so i dont wanna play with it too much lol, here it is its still all bumpy and yuk looking.

This is the timing map in the car that i worked on the other night for a few hours doing pull after pull to rid the knock which turned out to be caused by not enough timing in peak torque area

I was also able to run more timing up top, what i found though if i added timing in the 100-120 load areas it would cause knock suggestions?

 

you'll have to do a lot of datalogging to see what your car likes. Once you're sure that the car is mechanically sound and in a good running state, then datalog, datalog, and datalog.

I made a spread sheet of the load/rpm areas and the timing the computer was using. Then I blended one cell into then next.

As you make the map smoother and smoother, you'll notice that where you were not able to run a certain amount of timing, you now could.

It takes a lot of time, and is not going to happen overnight, or a couple nights But in the end, the great driveability and smoothness of the engine is worth it.