Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

Guys

I've done quite a bit of tuning on my RB26 300ZX over the last few years, but very recently (within the last 2 weeks) I've done into the world of Evo Tuning using the stock ECU.

I acquired my EB 2005 Evo from a close friend who punched a whole in the side of the stock block on his using an HTA Green and a considerable amount of supporting mods.

Within a week of picking this car up, I had swapped in a built shortblock, and had it running. Over the next 2-3 weeks, in continued to add goodies including:

- Swapping HTA Green for FP Black
- Add SpoolinUp COP
- Swap FIC 1050's for FIC 1450's
- Built Shep T-case
- Swapped HDSS clutch for HD6

Things that came with the car include

- Buschur 3" TBE
- Ported 02
- Buschur Ported Exhaust Mani
- Buschur Ported Intake Mani
- Buschur Ported TB
- Kelford 272's
- Buschur Race FMIC, piping
- Forge BOV, MBC
- LC1 Wideband

Not having used ECU Flash previously, it was a bit of a steep learning curve at first. I am now getting comforatable with it, and after getting my fuel trims dialed in pretty close, I started WOT tuning yesterday. I did some educated guessing on where my timing/fuel values would be, and made some adjustments.

The initial pull yielded 351awhp @ 20psi, but I knew I was going to go up in boost eventually so I took a few degrees of timing out. A/F looked good at this point...

I made a 2nd pull with the -2 deg of timing and lost about 10awhp.

Today I re-installed my MBC and stepped it up to ~25psi. I kept the timing and fuel values unaltered. Here is a VDR of the two runs compared



The car does seem like its a bit doggy compared to some other FP Black dyno's I have looked at.......maybe I am wrong however.

Here is some more important data

Timing Map Tracer



AFR Map Tracer



You can see the AFR actually looks pretty good across the board. I am curious if it is a little too lean, as I was registering some knock between 3000-4000rpm when the AFRs were starting to fatten up.

Here is the actual timing map. This is a tehpra V7 big map. I have not actually altered too much of what the map originally was, however I can see that Im getting into negative timing numbers, im certainly going to have to make some changes.



I have attached my actual evoscan log to this post for everyone to view.

I would like to weed that knock out of the system, however, I'm not sure if its the timing or the AFR thats actually triggering it. The timing doesnt seem to far advanced, considering the car is on E85.

I do notice on part throttle cruise at around 40% throttle at 0 boost around 3000rpm I get some good counts of knock. I checked those logs and the timing is only around 12 deg

Any tips, tricks, suggestions, or constructive criticism is welcome!

Appauldd

iTrader: (22)

Hit up TSCOMPUSA....he can help you.

Your tune is WAY conservative. E85 will love like 15-18 degrees up top, but only about 1 degree at peak load.

Your AFR is way rich for E85 as well. Do some searching for what others tune to with e85.

Paul

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

I have run my 300ZX on E85 for roughly 2 and a half years now. Honestly, I've got about 22 degrees of timing in that thing up top.......

I will agree with it being conservative, but from an amateur's viewpoint, its probably better that way than starting off overly aggressive haha

Hopefully josh can chime in....I have spent the last hour over at the "Lets see your fully tuned timing maps" thread

Creamo3

iTrader: (48)

I target 11.8-12.1 afr at peak boost to redline on E85; timing is around 6* advance at peak torque ramping to 17* up top. During spoolup I shoot for 12.5:1. The knock you're experiencing can be from running rich on E85, try leaning it out a little to see if it cleans things up then add some timing once you get your afr dialed in.

Boltz.

iTrader: (42)

Make sure to not just look at the map tracer but also go dig into the data files and get some better resolution of what is going on. Notice that you very briefly touch 10.4 at peak boost. This is too rich and could cause knock, misfire or the car to feel sluggish. Otherwise the afr's aren't awful.

Timing is too late. You should be target around 3-4* at peak torque, see how the car likes it and ramp up from there. The car will likely prefer a nice timing bump after 6000 as well. Also, the map is a little sloppy, there are some areas which need to be addressed which will make themselves present when viewing the 3D timing map.

Make sure that you consider how your load cells will be effected by increasing the boost level. You should have no problem pushing 30psi on the stock block with the black and E85, considering the tune is optimal.

Kudos for posting sufficient information to answer your question in your first post. Otherwise you wouldn't see me in here typing a response. For next time you may want to post up you fuel map as well.


Justin

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

I'm going to leave the fuel alone for right now. I'll use the richness as a safety while I add timing in.

I added ~3 degrees across the area's I was utilizing, all while interpolating to the left and right to keep the graph somewhat smooth...

Im going to load this new map in about an hour when I go on lunch break.....

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the info

I can relate, being somewhat of a "300ZX Guru" , I find myself skipping over technical posts with little regard to detail. I find it a bit daunting having to ask "1 million questions" when trying to find the root cause of an issue.

I will be honest regarding the fuel map, I havent really touched it - It is pretty much what came with the Tephra V7 Option 4.

Here is the fuel map...

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

I kinda snuck this in there w/out alot of attention to detail, but the shortblock is now built, along with some goodies on the top side....


2.0L
Manley I-beam Rods
9:1 JE Pistons
Deleted Balance Shafts
ARP L19 headstuds
Stock Head
Kelford 272/272 Cams
Supertech Dual Springs

This thing has already (on a previous car) made over 800awhp.....so I know its up to the task

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

Don't worry about keeping it rich for safety. E85 can cause misfiring and knock when run too rich. You should have no problem targeting 12:1, or high 11s:1 if you feel the need.

Everyone else has given good advice. I run a very conservative timing map running 30+ psi on my stock turbo and e85...about 1* peak to about 17* up top, IIRC. But with the black spooling later, you should be able to run a couple degrees more while keeping it relatively conservative. You should be able to ramp up pretty well to redline from there. But, your -2* at peak torque is definitely too little timing, epsecially at that rich AFR of 10.4-11.0.

Lean it out and add timing. Just be careful around peak torque...I see some people go crazy with E85 just looking at knock for the indicator and go past MBT, which will eventually or potentially throw a rod or damage a bearing. If you can run consecutive logs through VDR, that will help a lot.

Fast_Freddie

iTrader: (50)

I am with Eric, run about 1* at peak torque and start ramping the timing after peak tourque to 16*-18* out the top. Tune for mid 13s during spool to 12.1 at WOT. Don't go overboard with the timing at peak torque with E85 cause you can pass MBT without even knowing it... which like Eric said will manhandle the rods... with the 1450s and a single 255 you should be able to get up to around 500 hp VDR... congrats!

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

Well I loaded that timing map i just posted and ran it over lunch.

I can *feel* the car's sluggishness when its rich. It certainly starts to pick up in the higher RPM's.

Here's the VDR against the two...



I am unsure of why the loss in hp/tq down low however, i made 0 changes in that area

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

It would appear that I need to shift the timing map slightly to the right.......It looks like I have def too much timing at pk tq (graph shows thats 6000rpm)

That'll allow me to keep a good amount of advanced timing in before peak torque....

Here are the values the log is showing from 4,000-on up

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

One thing I have not seen alot of information on, is the timing advance, around 2500 or so.

Figuring out a solid number there, to ramp down to peak torque would help significantly. Is 20 too much when the car is essentially at 100 load?

I am going to give this timing map a shot I think.......I have noticed rougly a 2-3* difference between the actual timing maps, and the reported timing advance in the logs....

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

Went back out on the timing map previously posted.....picked up some decent midrange power and a little up top....

Booztd 3

iTrader: (15)

I have a question now that I'd like to lean the fuel maps out.

I am showing on my logs that im using AFR Map "8.7" from essentially 4300rpm to redline....




I look at the high/lo fuel maps and there is no where around 8.7 in the 230,240,250, etc ranges



Its all 8.0 in the fuel map. Is the ECU potentially calling some other cell that has 8.7 in it?