I went over 2-3* once on my personal evo and lifted the head and over-pressurized the coolant system and blew the weep hole right out of my water pump. Just going over 1* will raise cylinder pressure big time.

I dont pay attention to knock when I tune E85 i tune it by power it outputs. And my personal evo has 0 knock and makes clean power until i lift.

I think you read what I said the wrong way though. My post was basically saying that 1 count of knock could be well over MBT, because for the most part e85 doesn't knock really.. so even 0 knock can be over MBT.

You can even hear the difference in tone of the engine when over MBT, i have it on video for proof. hard to describe but it has a more raspy sound to it.

Ever since then, I am very very very careful with E85 and how I tune it. My only personal experience is with a 4g63 though.

Ive also noticed AFR can really manipulate torque readout on e85. running very rich i would receive an additiona 50wtq or more downlow.

 

Also I never said you would decrease your power.. but from my experience its like this:

you're adding timing.. 1deg at a time.. you get lets say 15whp per degree.. so you keep adding timing and watching everything else.. keeps increasing 15whp per degree.. so you continue adding it.. then all the sudden you add more and it goes to 8whp more instead of 15whp more.. that is where i stop adding more timing, because that tells me that im near the limitations since it started to stop making the same power per degree.

I dont see any other way you can do it. I know you know this also, just pointing out i do as well.

 

Hello Everyone,

Since you took this ride with me I thought I should give you an update.

My first mistake was logging ecuload so I was only seeing load to 159.
Amazing I didn't blow my motor not seeing what was going on in higher loads.
I changed to load mut 2 byte and now I see the higher load ranges.

Now here is the latest results.

Any complaints? worries? tips?

Thanks for all your help and advice.

 

Looks ok if you are hitting 300-280 load but your maptrace shows only 200 or so which would put you in the too much timing under wot boat..But given the title of the thread mabye that is what you are going for here..

 

Yesterday:

Today:


Is there an echo in here? Ctrl-C / Ctrl-P?



....

 

Just to be the echo-

It sounds meaner all of the sudden.

Then on the idle you will get the hot and bothered idle bounce immediately after the pull when its getting "close". This is something I have seen every motor do after a pull when its getting close. I have no explanation for it other than thats what my Grampa called it so its what I call it.

 

Going past MBT is just a bad idea. Peak cylinder pressures skyrocket and power usually goes down a little. Not to mention the car will feel inconsistent on power delivery and it will make it sensitive to weather changes.

Tone of the engine can change pretty appreciably, from what I've noticed. Both due to timing advance and AFR, so linking it to MBT seems a little simplified.

The way I tune my car, it usually sounds pretty raspy as I tend towards a leaner AFR and less timing advance. Makes them noisy but for a DD the leaner AFR under boost keeps mpg up and is probably a littler easier on the cat. I usually keep boost levels pretty mild when tuning like this though.

 

no, infact i documented it on my youtube account back when it happened and you can search my forum ID which will say about the water pump issue. I will upload the video and link it to you.. I actually have it on video when the pump went and yes big difference in sound of the engine.

Not to mention look inside "94awdcoupes thread where he said he blew his engine and I even pasted the MAP that was over MBT at peak boost.

It was 6* at peak boost which was approx 3800-4000 at the time, while my car should have been at 1-2* at the very most.. Seriously, I dont need any of your advice or information, I am just as informed as you are with E85 fuel and can do just fine myself.. I did not even see that post.

A very well known tuner told me to put 6's and 7's in that area for e85, and that was the result.. then i spoke to JohnBradley (Aaron) and he told me the complete opposite and his advice absolutely turned the car into a torque monster. So I trust anything and EVERYTHING Aaron has to say on this forum regarding any kind of tuning.

Heres the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvjS3n2ME2A

That video is from about a year ago, i just reuploaded it to youtube. taken from a go pro hd camera. you can clearly hear the engine is more raspy sounding. car sounds nothing like that now. which i have videos on youtube as well to show that.


Edit: This video isnt where the pump went. But it was on the same 6* at peak boost tune.

 

Map tracing is not the way to go either. I mean you can do that, but i do not like map tracing. I learned to read the raw log and edit based on that. Map tracing can get you into trouble if you're not paying close attention to what you're doing.

 

Ok.

 

Tell me something you know I dont about E85?

 

Keep the thread on topic. More about MBT, less about grade school ***** size.

 

np. but if you want to pm me something you think i may not know go ahead. im curious on your knowledge with it since you've been using it for quite some time now. If you say something I dont know ill admit I dont know it.

 

tuning under MBT is for pussies...

 

yes here some E85 tuned evos had problem with the lifted head, broken engine..

what does that "very rich" mean ? Is it ok to tune afr on E85 12.5 on spool up and 11.8 under boost till redline ?

Can we tune the timing with virtual dyno, is it enough accurate too see where to stop ?
How would you tune on E85, first on spool up than peak torque and high rpm and always take car how the power out put change ?
I read that too on peak torque with E85 lower around 1-2 degree timing ok.

So at all on E85 take a lot of care on the Engine sound, the power out put ( where it is not increasing as much, or where is it decrease ) and after the pulls watch the idle is normal ?