Mellon Tuning stock EVO 8 turbo vs BBK Full vs FP HTA Green 93 octane
Sep 23, 2009, 09:01 PM
#32
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Eric had eye surgery recently so fine print is a pain in the *** right now. I told him about the thread so I'm sure he'll chime in when he's feeling up to it.
Sep 23, 2009, 10:00 PM
#33
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Was thinking the same thing... I'm not an experienced tuner or mechanic but I've heard of this from hanging around a bunch of people who are and worked on the 'ol MR2's 4AGZE's...
chris have you ever had what we call valve float?
we mean as in not due to high rpm or aggressive cam profile but
because of tired/weak valve springs being overcome by boost.
a few ppl have had this here and either upgraded them or fitted doubles etc and
power was improved.
the symptons are not making any more power over a certain boost and lower than expected outputs for the spec when all mechanically/electrically seems sound.
mostly at 2bar+ boost
we mean as in not due to high rpm or aggressive cam profile but
because of tired/weak valve springs being overcome by boost.
a few ppl have had this here and either upgraded them or fitted doubles etc and
power was improved.
the symptons are not making any more power over a certain boost and lower than expected outputs for the spec when all mechanically/electrically seems sound.
mostly at 2bar+ boost
Sep 24, 2009, 12:04 AM
#34
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Hi Chris,
What spec was the HTA Green you tested? (several options available)
We are just about to look at the HTA Green also, and are encouraged by some great results we have got with the rest of the HTA series turbos.
Pic shows old style Green & the Green HTA:
What spec was the HTA Green you tested? (several options available)
We are just about to look at the HTA Green also, and are encouraged by some great results we have got with the rest of the HTA series turbos.
Pic shows old style Green & the Green HTA:
Sep 24, 2009, 02:45 AM
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This is basically in line with my findings over the past years. The most efficient combo is the very basics on the stock turbo - cams, tbe, licp, filter.
The BBK run says that the changes were higher boost, test pipe (what was there before?), 02 housing, ported manifold and SBR 3.5" FMIC, PTE 1000cc injectors. Not sure what the temp difference was, but it seems like not much gains from that many parts. Actually similar to my findings (around 15hp gain with BBK and perrin intake on 10F hotter weather and 1 point lower octane).
What was the temp difference between the BBK run and the HTA Green run?
The BBK run says that the changes were higher boost, test pipe (what was there before?), 02 housing, ported manifold and SBR 3.5" FMIC, PTE 1000cc injectors. Not sure what the temp difference was, but it seems like not much gains from that many parts. Actually similar to my findings (around 15hp gain with BBK and perrin intake on 10F hotter weather and 1 point lower octane).
What was the temp difference between the BBK run and the HTA Green run?
Sep 24, 2009, 04:24 AM
#36
Interesting comparison. Even though there were other variables (porting etc.). I chose the HTA due to it being $200 cheaper with my IX core. On paper the HTA flows more than the BBK, so it "should" make more power. But I would love to see a comparison where just the BBK and HTA were swapped. But I'm sure those PRO BBK people will cling onto those "variables".
, I was not commenting on the Red, I was commenting on the recommended boost levels for the HTA Green (according to FP)....
Sep 24, 2009, 08:27 AM
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This is basically in line with my findings over the past years. The most efficient combo is the very basics on the stock turbo - cams, tbe, licp, filter.
The BBK run says that the changes were higher boost, test pipe (what was there before?), 02 housing, ported manifold and SBR 3.5" FMIC, PTE 1000cc injectors. Not sure what the temp difference was, but it seems like not much gains from that many parts. Actually similar to my findings (around 15hp gain with BBK and perrin intake on 10F hotter weather and 1 point lower octane).
What was the temp difference between the BBK run and the HTA Green run?
The BBK run says that the changes were higher boost, test pipe (what was there before?), 02 housing, ported manifold and SBR 3.5" FMIC, PTE 1000cc injectors. Not sure what the temp difference was, but it seems like not much gains from that many parts. Actually similar to my findings (around 15hp gain with BBK and perrin intake on 10F hotter weather and 1 point lower octane).
What was the temp difference between the BBK run and the HTA Green run?
yes, 30psi was the peak, I'm not sure what it fell to
Sep 24, 2009, 09:03 AM
#43
Gah, I was busy last night and didn't see this until today. Thanks for the data mellon! I have suspected this all along but it looks like performance of the the HTA Green is very very similar to the BBK. There has been endless speculation about this, but ultimately the HTA Green is slightly bigger (if I'm not mistaken) so I have no idea why people were expecting it to magically be insanely more responsive yet still produce more top-end power. Perhaps the shrouded compressor cover offsets the extra performance potential and evens out the potential difference between these two turbos.
This is only one car, but honestly the gains between the BBK graph and the HTA Green graph really are nearly identical to what I saw when I did a ported head on my car, with the BBK on the car. I can posts graphs supporting this but would rather not do it here, don't wanna go too far off topic.
With that said, the HTA Green looks like a fantastic turbo. I would even be willing to bet that at full-tilt it would edge out the BBK way up top(7000rpm+). Thx for sharing mellon! I can't wait to see more results from this turbo!
This is only one car, but honestly the gains between the BBK graph and the HTA Green graph really are nearly identical to what I saw when I did a ported head on my car, with the BBK on the car. I can posts graphs supporting this but would rather not do it here, don't wanna go too far off topic.
With that said, the HTA Green looks like a fantastic turbo. I would even be willing to bet that at full-tilt it would edge out the BBK way up top(7000rpm+). Thx for sharing mellon! I can't wait to see more results from this turbo!
Sep 24, 2009, 09:06 AM
#44
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I'm going to MOD (mitsu owners day) this weekend and if my customer gets his HTA Green installed in time we'll get some more data. He's on e85 but has a stock shorty so we won't be able to see it's full potential just yet I'm afraid.
Sep 24, 2009, 09:11 AM
#45
That's cool, you should be able to get some good info out of it though as long as you keep boost/timing in perspective to other builds.
Curious to get feedback on responsiveness, drivability of the hta green compared to the bbk? Also, does the hta green have the same dying squirrel howl that the red does at light throttle (as you pass from vacuum into 0-1-2psi)?
Curious to get feedback on responsiveness, drivability of the hta green compared to the bbk? Also, does the hta green have the same dying squirrel howl that the red does at light throttle (as you pass from vacuum into 0-1-2psi)?