FP Black Q16 635hp/640tq
Tell Tex to give me a call tomorrow and we can discuss the pan/pick-up mod. It is a PITA but well worth it. We ran into this issue a few years back with the race cars. AEM logs would show the oil pressure drop on the launch. After modifying the pan/pick up the oil pressure was back to where it should be. Helps keep the bearings happy.
Keith
Thanks everybody, and thanks Keith for the help, I'll give ya a ring!
I really want to drive it some like this, but it's been on the trailer since friday night. Maybe later this week, hard to believe that anything could be a higher priority than getting seat time in your favorite project car, but life does put it's loads on ya! Hopefully we'll have some fun with the car this week. I just know that I am really going to regret not re-gearing the EVO9 tranny, 1/4m mile passes are going to be really weird once I get to the end of 4th gear with 200 - 300 feet to go... and on top of that this car is far from being "legal" at any NHRA or IHRA track, no cage, harness, firesuit, etc...
I really want to drive it some like this, but it's been on the trailer since friday night. Maybe later this week, hard to believe that anything could be a higher priority than getting seat time in your favorite project car, but life does put it's loads on ya! Hopefully we'll have some fun with the car this week. I just know that I am really going to regret not re-gearing the EVO9 tranny, 1/4m mile passes are going to be really weird once I get to the end of 4th gear with 200 - 300 feet to go... and on top of that this car is far from being "legal" at any NHRA or IHRA track, no cage, harness, firesuit, etc...
I have pix of Pauls somewhere that I can post up as well. Not sure where they went to, but it was a kicked out rear sump and a stretched pickup tube. Robert I'll send you a PM with some more details as well.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 210
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati Ohio
Those cams will run fine. My 4R ran fine too - I just like the 5R better. The only way to know about clearance issues is to check the clearance, I know that is a cop out answer from a DIY perspective, but it's really the only way to know the clearance.
BOOSTON!
Robert
BOOSTON!
Robert
Big fan of the 5R here!
A local guy purchased the AMS/Moroso pan and he had nothing but problems(and i've seen others who did as well), I dont know if they have since been fixed but I wouldn't use this option unless it was the only one.
Uh..............yes, we have a fix for the oil pan but we are not selling it, it's too difficult to make and I have no interest in mass producing the product or fix, it's a PITA to make it all.
Robert is correct though, absolutely there is a problem with hard acceleration and the stock EVO pan/pick up. The pick up is in the front and isn't designed to keep oil in/around the pick up if the car accelerates very hard, it will suck the pan dry in no time because all the oil sloshes to the back of the pan.
We've been building modifying pans for a long time, we built the first RWD 4g63, remember?
Anyway, the solution may very well be for people to buy the Moroso pan, we don't run them/sell them and I've never looked at one but someone else in this thread suggested it.
Robert is correct though, absolutely there is a problem with hard acceleration and the stock EVO pan/pick up. The pick up is in the front and isn't designed to keep oil in/around the pick up if the car accelerates very hard, it will suck the pan dry in no time because all the oil sloshes to the back of the pan.
We've been building modifying pans for a long time, we built the first RWD 4g63, remember?
Anyway, the solution may very well be for people to buy the Moroso pan, we don't run them/sell them and I've never looked at one but someone else in this thread suggested it.
Since you have no desire to make the modded oil pan, so theres no sales to loss, so just publish a how-to. Bet it would help a lot of people, like the guy a couple post down from yours that blew a motor due to oil pickup issues.
im pretty sure the folks that have blacks will buy the oil pan as we have to so its not like your going to loose any money if you make one i for one would pay up front to get it done and shipped so you have funds already and your not making it for not.
Robert, Im interested to see how well adding an extra court of oil helps. Im no mechanic but I was always under the impression that too much oil was worse than too little. Not sure if thats true or not.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: UK
Cosworth do an crankshaft oil scraper.
http://www.cosworth.com/default.aspx?id=1092988
It will help keep more volume in the lower part of the pan.
http://www.cosworth.com/default.aspx?id=1092988
It will help keep more volume in the lower part of the pan.
Is the talk about running a different oil pan just related to running very high levels of boost? Or is this just going to be a required thing for any setup wanting to run this turbo?
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: finland
Nice to see good logs, thats some air going through already <5krpm !
Do you have the numbers on your back-pressure vs rpm ? it seems that something is not breathing right on the high end range, maybe cam timings or something to switch the power band bit towards the end of the range.
logs and data, goood!
Do you have the numbers on your back-pressure vs rpm ? it seems that something is not breathing right on the high end range, maybe cam timings or something to switch the power band bit towards the end of the range.
logs and data, goood!
Very nice Robert, you never seem to reach your limits and yet you continue to strive at every chance you get. Thanks for another amazing product!
Last edited by Migsubishi; Nov 3, 2009 at 05:23 AM.
This oil pick-up issue is not isolated to the Black as it seems people are reading into it. This is a by product of making torque and power - all of the fast cars regardless of turbo choice will have this issue, it's not a new thing.
I went and checked logs from my car, I pull .65 G's of sustained acceleration in 3rd gear out of corners at the track with 460 whp and 420 ft-lbs. I don't have an oil pressure input on my logger though - I'll have to look into this. I might build some new baffling in the pan, and I also run an accumulator.
I went and checked logs from my car, I pull .65 G's of sustained acceleration in 3rd gear out of corners at the track with 460 whp and 420 ft-lbs. I don't have an oil pressure input on my logger though - I'll have to look into this. I might build some new baffling in the pan, and I also run an accumulator.
It is a g force thing. If your forward acceleration exceeds .6g, then you can have this problem with the stock oil pan.
You can exceed .6g during acceleration whenever your trq gets pretty high, say anyhting over about 500ftlb trq can get you into this sort of acceleration realm. Additionally, being UNDER .6g accel and hitting a bump in the road has done the same thing in my logs.
Not turbo specific, but rather power specific related problem.