Same principle behind aerated diving pools. Its not the same.

 

Hey Tex, perhaps I can help. AWD94, I suggest you go out and get two jars of peanut butter:

http://www.peterpanpb.com/peanut-but...nut-butter.jsp - whipped
http://www.peterpanpb.com/peanut-but...nut-butter.jsp - original

The whipped peanut butter is aerated, the original isn't. Stick your knife/spoon in there and feel the difference. They are not created equal! Personally, I prefer the honey roast though...

 

Bottom line is that you DONT want to pump bubbles. We have thermocouples inside the turbocharger that show the thrust bearing temp rising when this aeration occurs, and not rising when it doesnt occur. I'm not guessing this is bad, I am telling you it is bad because it is BAD

I'd also like to ask that everyone keep this thread as civil and polite as possible. I don't appreciate anyone using this thread to make insults or backhanded compliments that are off topic. Oil cavitation isnt someones "fault". Thanks!

 

Also, my concern centers on the drop in the turbo oil pressure data trace, the red one. You can see that it drops from 50psi to a little over 20 psi while the turbo is at about 130krpm and 33psi boost pressure. 20psi of foam under full load operating condition for the turbocharger. Not a "good" thing really for a turbo that calls for a 45-70psi supply pressure.

 

Thanks for all the good info BR and FP. Dont want another blown motor or turbo

 

Is an oil accumulator an adequate solution to these issues on the road course? Where would be the best place to plumb one in?

What are the issues that have come up with installing the AMS pan, if anyone knows?

I thought I had my turbo oiling worries were solved when I upgraded the oil line on my FP Red to the latest design, but I guess not.

Thanks.

 

Correct me if its wrong (and this is general not pointing a finger at the quoted)...

Its been a few years since mechanical engineering class, but you cant have hydrodynamic wedge occur unless its fluid. Aerated anything is less than a fluid and therefore not conducive to standard hydraulic use.

 

im just curious to say the least of what the outcome is going to be on a dyno of an FP BLack on normal DD boost levels like 28-30psi.

Those are the real results id like to see, because not everybody drives the BLACK on 41-42psi.

 

I agree. Eventually someone will be running the the Black on pump. I was going to do this but I think I have a few more thing that I'm going to work out on my Red. I have a goal of 560hp at 30psi on my Red before I upgrade. I will hopefully hit this within a few weeks. Before I build my motor in the spring I will run Q16+meth on 40+psi to see what the Red does on my setup. If I'm lucky I will pop the bottomend I think that 500+ DJ with the Black on pump should be a real ease on a well modded car FP FTMFW

Mikey

 

my black gets installed friday and i will be running it on pump, but i cannot tune it yet, because i am also rebuilding clutch and need to brake it in

 

Thanks for the info Robert et al...

I run a VDO oil pressure sender to my AiM dash with a simple under 10 psi alarm alert. If I run the VDO sender to a high speed input to my Autronic, would the VDO sender likely have the resolution to spot issues like this?

What would that drop to 45-50 psi of oil pressure likely do to rod and main bearings?

Do you see that dip in oil pressure everytime you accelerate in 3rd? Or is the datalog you provided one of the worst/best examples?

How much better are ball bearing turbos at withstanding this type of abuse than journal bearing? A bit better? Or orders of magnitude better?

Cars with big torque are more likely to see this problems correct? For example a 600 hp / 400 tq car (most t3/2l setups) is not likely to have this issue right?

Appreciate your answers. I'm gonna see if I can get my oil pressure sender going to the Autronic instead of straight to the dash... stupid AiM can't do datalogging.

 

Very nice results, Robert .

Impressive to say the least.

Thank you for all the research and development you do daily, and for the amazing FP Turbo's part and catalog you offer.

 

I just bought a black I am insulted, this uncivilized and just plane old maddness! I am virtually backhanding u right now! Lol............................................... .;….........................................
Jk

I actually just bought an fp black and wanted to know if at 25-30 psi pump gas u think I'd have to worry about any of these problems

 

Aeration and pressure dips can beat up bearings very quickly, it all depends on how heavily the bearings are loaded. If you're nowhere near the oil film limit, you can get away with a lot. If you're on the edge, any dip at all can cause metal to metal contact and damage.

When I was seeing pressure drops to ~30psi at launch I killed one set of rod bearings in only 9 passes.

In 2008 I was seeing pressure drops at the top end of the track when I lifted because all the oil was stacked up in the head and not much in the pan. Pressure would drop to ~40psi for a fraction of a second. All the main bearings were beat up (I was changing rods every couple outings) and the turbo bearings showed some heat.

This year I redesigned the oil pickup and went 1qt deeper on the sump. It does not lose pressure anywhere now. The main bearings looked better at last inspection and the turbo bearings looked absolutely perfect when I looked at them about halfway through the season. Through high 1.2xx 60' times I average about 1.65G's and I'll sometimes see peaks in the 1.8G range. And before anyone says it, no, the DSM pan isn't that horribly much different than the EVO stuff.

Kevin

 

This is what someone needs to do then.

btw 1.8Gs sick....