FP Black Q16 635hp/640tq
This oil pick-up issue is not isolated to the Black as it seems people are reading into it. This is a by product of making torque and power - all of the fast cars regardless of turbo choice will have this issue, it's not a new thing.
I went and checked logs from my car, I pull .65 G's of sustained acceleration in 3rd gear out of corners at the track with 460 whp and 420 ft-lbs. I don't have an oil pressure input on my logger though - I'll have to look into this. I might build some new baffling in the pan, and I also run an accumulator.
I went and checked logs from my car, I pull .65 G's of sustained acceleration in 3rd gear out of corners at the track with 460 whp and 420 ft-lbs. I don't have an oil pressure input on my logger though - I'll have to look into this. I might build some new baffling in the pan, and I also run an accumulator.
Well, I dont want the power band to be in a higher RPM range, I dont like to rev the 100m crank to the moon. But yes, there is a blockage in the upper RPM, I run all the exhaust gas thru the O2 housing and DP and the pressure in the DP is getting quite high, as much as 12psi. I added a WG to the DP right under the turbo, and that helped some, it dropped the DP pressure from 12psi to about 8psi, but that is still too much outlet side pressure. The car needs a WG dump housing to let half the exh run out the WG dump and not be forced thru the 3" exh.
3" exh just doesnt cut it for 68lb/min flow rate
But honestly, this car is sooo fast and strong the way it is, I'd line up against damn near anything in it with money on the line. 3" DP be damned
I guess it drops off, but you dont feel that when driving the car. When you are driving it you are in "Full Pucker" mode.
People burn down turbos for this reason also. The turbo bearings are WAY WAY smaller surface area than say a rod or main bearing, and will die first. Did you know that miners used to take canaries into the mine with them? The did this because they die easy if the air is bad and signal all the miners to leave the mine. Your turbo is kinda like the Canary in your engine, if the oil pressure or volume gets bad, the turbo is about the first thing to have a problem.
so my question to you is what do we buy oil pan modified crack knife as posted earlier. is the plan to inlcude/require this with the purchase of the black robert? i for one dont have a choice i need to buy what i need to buy so i dont damage my motor. i dont/have any desire to build this motor again if it blows my evo days are over
Not having steady oil supply is going to be bad for any turbocharger that has an oil line connected to the engine. And I dont see many turbos that dont feature a oil supply connection.
That being said, I suppose one could imagine that a 35R with its lesser oil supply pressure and volume is going to have less sensitivity to a couple of seconds without oil pressure, but I can imagine it being good for a BB turbo either.
That being said, I suppose one could imagine that a 35R with its lesser oil supply pressure and volume is going to have less sensitivity to a couple of seconds without oil pressure, but I can imagine it being good for a BB turbo either.
I don't have pictures of the few pans we did, I did them as favors and didn't charge for the work.
My thread about what "I" can do to help was about ECU flash/open source, not how to build engines, set up suspension, build your own engines etc., as some have suggested.
There is already a solution, AMS/Moroso offers a pan, looks like a good option to me. AMS's phone number is 847-709-0530, give them a call, they already have a fix for the oil pan.
Robert, what kind of 3" exhaust do you have on the car? My RS is running 9.0 at 159.6 as you know and I run it through our full 3" turbo back and I have two mufflers on the car. I do have an external gate dumping some of it, not much though at 40 psi.
A quick description of what we did to the pan. We cut all the stock baffling out of the pan. Then moved the pick up to the rear of the pan like it should have been in the first place. Then welded new baffling in around the re-located pick up. It's a huge PITA to cut it out and do it. That's why I have no interest in doing it, just call AMS and get their pan, easy.
My thread about what "I" can do to help was about ECU flash/open source, not how to build engines, set up suspension, build your own engines etc., as some have suggested.
There is already a solution, AMS/Moroso offers a pan, looks like a good option to me. AMS's phone number is 847-709-0530, give them a call, they already have a fix for the oil pan.
Robert, what kind of 3" exhaust do you have on the car? My RS is running 9.0 at 159.6 as you know and I run it through our full 3" turbo back and I have two mufflers on the car. I do have an external gate dumping some of it, not much though at 40 psi.
A quick description of what we did to the pan. We cut all the stock baffling out of the pan. Then moved the pick up to the rear of the pan like it should have been in the first place. Then welded new baffling in around the re-located pick up. It's a huge PITA to cut it out and do it. That's why I have no interest in doing it, just call AMS and get their pan, easy.
Sorry, also, the extra 1/4 of oil doesn't help much if any at all. We've tried that too, the crank just whips the living hell out of it, aerates its even more and will generally push more oil out the breathers.
Try a crank scraper, it helps. We use Cosworth's part.
Try a crank scraper, it helps. We use Cosworth's part.
I would think BB turbos would not be too affected by this. It takes a more than a few seconds before the oil would dissipate from bearing races. ball bearings only need a very light film of oil. I was making .9g in my yellow car on a third gear pull back at 525hp. I wonder what it is now. I dont have any mods to my pickup. I have a mechanical oil gauge. I have never watched it during a pull. Rod bearings after 15,000 hard miles didnt show any abnormal signs of wear. But I havent seen a set with an accumulator in place or other fixes either. makes me wonder now.
I dont like the idea of the moroso pan, just looks like a hassle to install and fit. I have the JuneBL exhaust and a Works 3" DP, but we run the WG gas thru the exhaust instead of dumping it. And dumping it is what we need to do instead of keeping it inside the DP. I put a WG on the DP, but that only helps by a couple PSI because of the angle I had to attach it in order to let it fit in the available space 
But honestly, I'm not very bothered by the issue, I like the power as it is just fine, it's lots of power, more than 90% of the cars you'll run into. I am not gonna cry about only having 600whp at redline.
I took the cat back off and measured the DP pressure that way too, and it only make a 1-2psi difference, so dumping the WG gas is our next logical step. I need to get the DP pressure down to 3-4psi instead of 8-12psi, that would make a diff at this power level.
I dont know if the 9 pan is a whole lot diff than the 8 pans, but the 9 pan has some good baffling inside it already, just that the pickup is in the front cavity rather than the rear cavity.
But honestly, I'm not very bothered by the issue, I like the power as it is just fine, it's lots of power, more than 90% of the cars you'll run into. I am not gonna cry about only having 600whp at redline.I took the cat back off and measured the DP pressure that way too, and it only make a 1-2psi difference, so dumping the WG gas is our next logical step. I need to get the DP pressure down to 3-4psi instead of 8-12psi, that would make a diff at this power level.
I dont know if the 9 pan is a whole lot diff than the 8 pans, but the 9 pan has some good baffling inside it already, just that the pickup is in the front cavity rather than the rear cavity.
I would think BB turbos would not be too affected by this. It takes a more than a few seconds before the oil would dissipate from bearing races. ball bearings only need a very light film of oil. I was making .9g in my yellow car on a third gear pull back at 525hp. I wonder what it is now. I dont have any mods to my pickup. I have a mechanical oil gauge. I have never watched it during a pull. Rod bearings after 15,000 hard miles didnt show any abnormal signs of wear. But I havent seen a set with an accumulator in place or other fixes either. makes me wonder now.
