After running the BBK for a while I wanted more top-end power but didn't want a laggy piece of ****. I talked with Robert from Forced Performance & decided to go with the Black I promised him I'd keep all my power mods the same to be able to do a fair back-to-back comparison and that's just what I did.

TY to Aaron & EnglishRacing. We're lucky to have you guys in NW, can't say enough how professional and top notch they are (or how fun they are to hang with).

Mods
FP Black & BBK @ 27psi
GSC S2 cams
ER Speed Density tune
3.5" intake & Amsoil 7" filter (obviously I had to put a larger intake on)
3" exhaust
Titek V2 O2 housing
BR ported OEM exhaust manifold
Garret FMIC w/ETS piping
FIC HI 1150s
BR Double Pumper
Sparktech non-cdi
E98
Stock - intake manifold, throttle body, block, head (minus cams), etc etc


3rd gear pulls & SAE Corrected for the weather differences. Crappy black/white scan but theyre easy to follow. Black is the 485 -




This is the FP Black ONLY (no BBK in this graph) @ 27 and 30psi! We ran out of fuel @ 30 psi so we couldn't go any higher.


The Black dominates the BBK obviously and @ 27 psi the Black isn't even in it's sweet spot. It feels very peppy on the street and is just as good if not better than the BBK between shifts and I have PLENTY of compressor left now for the future. Also sounds like my Dad's diesel dump truck turbo! The car made 400whp @ 20psi, 450whp @ 24psi and 513whp @ 30psi.

Next mods before motor build are 2150s, Magnus V5, Undecided 65mm TB, Shearer O2 dump and 25psi actuator. Hopefully crack 550 at less or same boost and not much more torque Or if anyone has suggestions throw them out and I'll noodle on them.

Thanks -

Aaron, Lucas, TJ, Jake & Bushmaster (OK even TJ's Bro ) @ EnglishRacing
Robert @ ForcedPerformance
Michael @ ETS

 

I don't have either turbo, but a few observations:

- This was done on E98, what would the picture be on Pump gas?
- Between 3500-4000 RPM there is a lot of difference in the two. (100 ft-lbs)
- Yes the FP Black shows much more top power potential, but for road racing, which one would be optimal? The BBK might kill it for AutoX beacuse of that extra 100 ft-lbs you see between 3500-4000.
- For drag racing, the BBK might get killed by the Black.

 

The BBK was actually a great pump gas turbo. I made 450whp at 29psi on 94 octane E20 Cenex pump gas. I don't know what the Black would make on pump but probably somewhere above 450whp on my setup on the same gas.

I don't know anyone who races their car at 3500-4000rpm. If I'm racing it's closer to 5k-8k so thats where I want my power. For drag racing the BBK will get killed not might that's no mystery to anyone hehe. I haven't AutoX since stock turbo so I can't give any impressions on either bbk or black but I certainly don't feel like I'm missing anything under the curve when I downshift and go to get on it

 

sick numbers!!! the black spools a lot faster than i expected it would. when are you seeing full boost with it? looks like around 4k.

r u still on the stock clutch?!!

 

full boost looks to be about 4500rpm. you cant really ask for much more honestly from a turbo equal to the size of a gt35r. great job Aaron and good power boostedwrx.

I wish we could have seen a bbk-b comparison though not the old bbk.

 

looking at those initial numbers, i'd take the BBK over the black.
the power is essentially identical, if you had solid boost control the graphs would almost overlay each other but the BBK reaches max boost 500rpm sooner.
BBK vs Black @ 30psi would be an interested comparison!

Whats the transient response difference like?

 

Thanks dude & sorry can't please everyone. The Black is readily available and has been for a long time and I've been wanting to try FP for a while.

To put it into perspective when I still had the BBK it made 500whp once at 33psi but all other runs were in the high 480's. The Black cracks over 500 easily at 30 psi.

Like I said, between shifts, spool-up in the next gear is very good. Especially when WOT rowing through the gears. Boost builds instantly. It is a lot bigger turbo and 30psi is where the BBK stopped making power for me, the Black has plenty of compressor left. We all know it's good for what Mikey 680whp? The point of my thread was to just show it doesn't spool that much later and can support a lot bigger setup

ACT-HDSS even though the stocker never slipped and had plenty of life left - got tired of crossing fingers on the dyno. The ACT has been very good so far.

 

I am with JD and RS on this one. I am very impressed with the BBK numbers down low. At 27psi I would choose the BBK for my daily driver. Much more enjoyable power band. 100ft/lbs loss at 3800rpm is massive. Thanks for sharing the back to back data.

 

I ran a similar test but not on a dyno...at an actual track, twice. Pump gas, all same mods, 25 psi, BBK Full v FP Red (I know its not a Black, but it spools even a little faster)

Lag makes a difference on a road course my friend regardless of your assertion that nobody races down low.

On pump gas the BBK full owns the Black/Red/Etc

Nice comparison for people who care more about total power as opposed to transient response though

 

That's true, the only place where the black is making more power than the bbk is where the boost is higher... same boost between 6k and 6.5k, and same power!

Spool difference is 500-600rpm, which is A LOT. You should be able to notice that!

If you are keeping your stock block, the bbk is better. If you plan to run a built engine, make sure you have at least 60-70whp over the bbk to make it worth the extra lag.

Upgrading the block before the turbo would have been a better choice IMO


Good Luck

 

BBK looks alot better for road use and pump gas.

 

Just checked the link where your bbk did 500whp on 33psi peak. Actual boost at 500whp was about 24.7psi... your black did 513whp where actual boost is 26.7, which means 13whp extra for 2psi more boost!

I take it the black holds boost easier than the bbk, but spending enough time to set your boost properly could have resulted in very close power between the bbk and the black, while the bbk still spooling MUCH faster.

 

Looks great dude! Congrats!

Mikey

 

nice comparo! but lets do one with a bbkb vs black! we forget the bbk is still truly a stock framed turbo. put a billet wheel the size of the black in a bbk and then see the results. none the less nice comparo. food for thought.

 

That's cool, and BTW, very good power!

And I can take you about 45 minutes from here on the NSS Roval where there are two hairpins I have to take between 3500-4000 RPM in 2nd gear, and they are back to back with a very short straight between them. But that's me, and I don't drag race.