FP Black Ball Bearing tested - documentary results inside.
Jul 28, 2011, 09:26 AM
#1
FP Black Ball Bearing tested - documentary results inside.
see post #2 for more results https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9493420-post2.html
-------
So people who have been following my thread here know about this project already.
I had Owen developments convert a new FP Black into a ball bearing turbo.
I am still in the process of testing, but id like to share a few graphs so far.. well three for now.
The graph below is at 36.5psi in 94F heat.
Mods that matter:
BR 2.3L
BR stage 3 head
BR Race FMIC
BR double pumper
FIC 2150cc injectors
FP black ball bearing
FP air intake /w perrin filter
Kelford 272
Map rev3
Map ported exhaust manifold
Mil.Spec 65mm tb
Muse upper/lower piping
Forge type RS bov
Hallman pro mbc
Cobb 3" TBE
invidia o2 housing
Exedy twin HD
Sparktech non cdi
ALL PULLS DONE IN 3rd GEAR!
This is the graph with all the timing in it from today 8-11 | you can tell ill get the same curves i got 8-2010 once i fix the boost curve.
Here is what i was able to extract on E85 with 36.5psi spike and taper hard. I will update with more results as they come, im going to be experimenting with random tuning techniques on my car and see if i can extract even more tq out of it.
Here is the same day but later in the night and temps dropped to 85F and while the HP went much higher, the torque got altered due to AFR changes due to weather.
Also note the boost curve! The car from a 38psi spike will hold only 31psi at redline. I will change out the spring in the hallman mbc with the heavy spring and see how that goes, but for now here are some teaser results for you guys in hot weather with high humidity. when i say hot i mean hot.. you cant breath in the weather we've been getting the last 20 days.
Heres last year with the Journal bearing in full kill mode holding 34psi at redline: amazing what a few psi extra can do right? the black really shines once you get it in the 33-34 zone at redline on my car.
More testing to follow. the best ive gotten peak torque to hit so far was around 4100rpm, which is amazing for this kind of turbo.. ive seen full boost (33psi) as low as 3650rpm so far.
-
Heres a cool video of how long the turbo stays spinning when vehicle is shut down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4vcQV1vZUA
-
Stay tuned for more updates! I will be working my *** off until i get the tune perfected to get you guys 100% perfect results, but so far it just seems about 150-200RPM quicker then a journal bearing black in response and the overall power in general remains the same since its the same aero design.
-------
So people who have been following my thread here know about this project already.
I had Owen developments convert a new FP Black into a ball bearing turbo.
I am still in the process of testing, but id like to share a few graphs so far.. well three for now.
The graph below is at 36.5psi in 94F heat.
Mods that matter:
BR 2.3L
BR stage 3 head
BR Race FMIC
BR double pumper
FIC 2150cc injectors
FP black ball bearing
FP air intake /w perrin filter
Kelford 272
Map rev3
Map ported exhaust manifold
Mil.Spec 65mm tb
Muse upper/lower piping
Forge type RS bov
Hallman pro mbc
Cobb 3" TBE
invidia o2 housing
Exedy twin HD
Sparktech non cdi
ALL PULLS DONE IN 3rd GEAR!
This is the graph with all the timing in it from today 8-11 | you can tell ill get the same curves i got 8-2010 once i fix the boost curve.
Here is what i was able to extract on E85 with 36.5psi spike and taper hard. I will update with more results as they come, im going to be experimenting with random tuning techniques on my car and see if i can extract even more tq out of it.
Here is the same day but later in the night and temps dropped to 85F and while the HP went much higher, the torque got altered due to AFR changes due to weather.
Also note the boost curve! The car from a 38psi spike will hold only 31psi at redline. I will change out the spring in the hallman mbc with the heavy spring and see how that goes, but for now here are some teaser results for you guys in hot weather with high humidity. when i say hot i mean hot.. you cant breath in the weather we've been getting the last 20 days.
Heres last year with the Journal bearing in full kill mode holding 34psi at redline: amazing what a few psi extra can do right? the black really shines once you get it in the 33-34 zone at redline on my car.
More testing to follow. the best ive gotten peak torque to hit so far was around 4100rpm, which is amazing for this kind of turbo.. ive seen full boost (33psi) as low as 3650rpm so far.
-
Heres a cool video of how long the turbo stays spinning when vehicle is shut down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4vcQV1vZUA
-
Stay tuned for more updates! I will be working my *** off until i get the tune perfected to get you guys 100% perfect results, but so far it just seems about 150-200RPM quicker then a journal bearing black in response and the overall power in general remains the same since its the same aero design.
Last edited by tscompusa2; Aug 11, 2011 at 03:15 PM.
Jul 28, 2011, 09:27 AM
#2
UPDATE #1: (July 30th)
went to the interstate last night with smooth and flat roads. focused only on the area in green for now .. but you can see i got somewhere. i believe theres even more tq to open downlow with afr tweaks. this time around was timing tweaks only
Im on the fence about just taking it to a dyno, because i would beable to extract every last HP/TQ in like 30min to an hr on a real dyno. now just to polish the low end afr.
timing is SUPER low past 5k.. this is just a base map i decided to load and slowly extract all HP so i can confirm everythings MBT.
temps were 81F at 2am.
=========================================
heres todays pulls (July 30th) with a few more tweaks (91F right now).. ( AFR TWEAKS) ( KEEP IN MIND THE TIMING IS FLAT RIGHT NOW IN THESE PULLS.. I was only focusing on maximizing spool low end tq region. )
All I gotta say is.. when this thing hits it ****ing hits.. it yanks you into the seat.. the power comes on so hard you feel like you got pushed hard and the car takes off.. the car feels very good.. the power is extremely aggressive when it comes on.. this combination is insane..
slight uphill run:
went to the interstate last night with smooth and flat roads. focused only on the area in green for now .. but you can see i got somewhere. i believe theres even more tq to open downlow with afr tweaks. this time around was timing tweaks only
Im on the fence about just taking it to a dyno, because i would beable to extract every last HP/TQ in like 30min to an hr on a real dyno. now just to polish the low end afr.
timing is SUPER low past 5k.. this is just a base map i decided to load and slowly extract all HP so i can confirm everythings MBT.
temps were 81F at 2am.
=========================================
heres todays pulls (July 30th) with a few more tweaks (91F right now).. ( AFR TWEAKS) ( KEEP IN MIND THE TIMING IS FLAT RIGHT NOW IN THESE PULLS.. I was only focusing on maximizing spool low end tq region. )
All I gotta say is.. when this thing hits it ****ing hits.. it yanks you into the seat.. the power comes on so hard you feel like you got pushed hard and the car takes off.. the car feels very good.. the power is extremely aggressive when it comes on.. this combination is insane..
slight uphill run:
Last edited by tscompusa2; Aug 2, 2011 at 10:28 PM.
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Jul 28, 2011, 12:07 PM
#9
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Looks like the journal bearing picked up as much as 20-30lb ft. over the ball bearing at 4000rpm and lower which is where the ball bearing is supposed to shine. Any ideas as to what may be the cause? Were they all on the same exact stretch of road? FP black is a bad *** turbo and BB makes it better, I just expected a difference in a positive way.
Last edited by PeteyTurbo@KHC; Jul 28, 2011 at 12:10 PM.
Jul 28, 2011, 12:32 PM
#10
Looks like the journal bearing picked up as much as 20-30lb ft. over the ball bearing at 4000rpm and lower which is where the ball bearing is supposed to shine. Any ideas as to what may be the cause? Were they all on the same exact stretch of road? FP black is a bad *** turbo and BB makes it better, I just expected a difference in a positive way.
heres more of a realistic curve with no smoothing.. its definitely hitting earlier then the journal that i can guarantee you, regardless what the graphs represent.
the difference isnt night and day, but its there. it recovers better in between shifting and seems to be more responsive in general when driving.
also i cant tell you the temperature or air density when that pull was taken but the log indicated it was from 8-14-2010.
Jul 28, 2011, 01:24 PM
#14
Looks like the journal bearing picked up as much as 20-30lb ft. over the ball bearing at 4000rpm and lower which is where the ball bearing is supposed to shine. Any ideas as to what may be the cause? Were they all on the same exact stretch of road? FP black is a bad *** turbo and BB makes it better, I just expected a difference in a positive way.
I'm assuming that if they left the turbine "stock", then it would have uncontrollably surged.
Jul 28, 2011, 01:27 PM
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Before you changed it the green graph showed over 240 tq @3000 and the blue (ball bearing) showed about 215 at the same RPM..Thats a big tq difference for very little boost and makes a big difference. What did the other half of the graph look like after you changed it? This is a perfect example of tailoring the graphs to suit targeted values. I'm not saying the gain isn't there but with dyno simulation software the accuracy really isn't when you are doing this type of testing. And I think judging by your statement "regardless what the graphs represent." you would probably agree
dont compare the green graph to the regular graphs. the green graph the mbc is set higher boost + the wga is preloaded to 30psi. the fp black BB wga is set at stock tension (25psi).
heres more of a realistic curve with no smoothing.. its definitely hitting earlier then the journal that i can guarantee you, regardless what the graphs represent.
the difference isnt night and day, but its there. it recovers better in between shifting and seems to be more responsive in general when driving.
also i cant tell you the temperature or air density when that pull was taken but the log indicated it was from 8-14-2010.
heres more of a realistic curve with no smoothing.. its definitely hitting earlier then the journal that i can guarantee you, regardless what the graphs represent.
the difference isnt night and day, but its there. it recovers better in between shifting and seems to be more responsive in general when driving.
also i cant tell you the temperature or air density when that pull was taken but the log indicated it was from 8-14-2010.