Since only the turbo was changed (boost was left the same), and it made more power (albiet small) why wouldnt you believe it makes more power?

I hate it when people post up a bunch of rubbish in a thread with no concrete details to back up the claim. If it is not the BB that does it, what is it?

 

I gotta hear this explanation!

 

what this thread should show is that the bb added to shaft does NOTHING for horsepower. there is simply no hp loss from friction at shaft. none that will show on dyno. any turbo builder can verify this simple fact.

bb shaft improves transient response. this is where there is enough exhaust energy after a shift for turbo to immediately be at high turbine speeds. a thrust bearing will act like a dragging disc brake under this condition. bb shaft doesnt have a disc thrust surface. so it has the ability to transient much faster. but this only has ability to ad horsepower during these transients. once shaft is at stable speed there is no hp loss causing friction at shaft.

you can dyno your car. remove from dyno drive around the block. pull it back on dyno and possibly see as much as 10% difference in power. just from how car gets strapped to dyno. there are SOO many things that can throw off an accurate back to back its not even worth discussing. its a shame to see respected tuner/shop make a post such as this. the lack of knowledge here is where the HP change actually came from. I am 100% sure its not from turbo swap.

 

OP so i dont want to sound lost but are telling me the hp is about the same if you say turn the boost up to 30+

 

I think the test is beneficial to us as enthusiasts and consumers. I'm actually glad the test was done. Why?

For those who are willing to admit it, this graph shows one simple fact - The ball-bearing feature on a FP black is a fricken' waste of your hard earned dollars. Save yourself the money, get a journal bearing turbo, and you'll never know the difference... Oh, except that you'll still have about $1k in your pocket to do other mods with

 

I disagree. A plain bearing turbo of this size falls out of boost too easy. BB allows one to sport shift and remain in boost. Far more enjoyable to drive. Drag racers looking for every thou second love it. AND it is far more reliable. All for just 500 over cost of original black. = bargain IMHO

this test is just bad. why is there huge losses from 4500-5200? then big gains after 5500? this test is completely useless. you cant even rely on spool data when you know HP curve is way off.

 

Stop hatin' Jerry.

Aaron explained why the the numbers were different. This dyno shows exactly what you would expect.

Marginal improvements in threshold boost due to reduction in CHRA friction... and pretty much the same everywhere else.

Thanks for Sharing Aaron.

I DO LIKE YOUR TESTING METHOD

 

whaaa? you must not be reading same post?

 

take it for what it is. Aaron explains all the details. This isn't AVL dyno software, atmospheric conditioning, with a Horiba AC dyno, and fully instrumented engine.

It's a dyno comparison done on a customers car who actually took the time to dyno them back to back. Aaron understands the dynamic differences of the turbocharger and that they cannot be properly shown in a dyno sheet.

He's showing that the threshold boost is changed relatively VERY little.

take it for what it's worth.

 

well I wasnt even commenting on the boost threshold differences till the end. The jist of the post was that he saw gains from BB black that he wasnt expecting. Then he later explains he adjusted the mivec during the supposed back to back test.

I just say thread and this back to back test is useless info. There was no direct back to back that shows anything worthwhile. And I think its important for the average consumer to see posts from someone like me explaining that there will be no gains from black like the first post suggests.

this is not me hating at all. just trying to ad good info to a thread that needs it. many do appreciate my efforts.

I like everybody at English Racing and we all appreciate what they add to the forums.

Take that for what its worth.

 

He says right there... there was phantom knock, ignition retard, and therefore the numbers are skewed. He also states that the test was there NOT to show HP differences but to show the response differences... as his testing procedure outlines he's more interested in seeing how the boost threshold has changed...not peak power. that can be evident when he says he doesn't expect any power difference.

You can bet being the graphs are uncorrected that the atmospheric conditions are not accounted for AND these two tests were done at completely different times.

 

1. This is the good ole' USA and there is no rule against you being wrong. So, its OK.
2. There is also no rule against you being much slower than me with my cheaper journal bearing turbo

 

I think Jerry and I have come to a mutual agreement.

 

i still have yet to see the point of us jb black owners spending 2500 or 1299 to upgrade to BB plus money to pay for swap and oil change. yea its more reiable but again most of us have or will never have issues with our jb blacks to spend needless money so far really is to just say to people i have a bb black.

 

i think if you already have a black there is no point. for those of us going from one turbo to another there's no point getting a jb when there's a bb out there unless we're really pinching pennies.. and then that's a different consideration altogether