Injectors that add horsepower
isn't the intake valve open for something closer to 1/4 of the time? i do agree with your idea of using a monster injector to spray fuel only when the intake valve is open. kinda makes me want to run some fic2150s. 
another aspect that sounds kinda interesting is getting control over injector phasing. maybe i need to go looking for that...
another aspect that sounds kinda interesting is getting control over injector phasing. maybe i need to go looking for that...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
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From: Northwest
Not on anything larger than the 1050 at this time. The larger versions of the SP line are currently still in the R&D phase.
Injector phasing is a must have for reasons I dont fully want to discuss in this particular thread. I am sure it would be difficult but the gains can be immense.
isn't the intake valve open for something closer to 1/4 of the time? i do agree with your idea of using a monster injector to spray fuel only when the intake valve is open. kinda makes me want to run some fic2150s. another aspect that sounds kinda interesting is getting control over injector phasing. maybe i need to go looking for that...
another aspect that sounds kinda interesting is getting control over injector phasing. maybe i need to go looking for that...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
Likes: 78
From: Northwest
I would say direct injection would be the next step up from a big injector timed properly. There is more to GDI then just the timing. There is a GDI head for the 4G motor though, it would defintiely make a cool science project to compare.
Aaron, yeah, my thought is you would see no change anywhere except for power output. You are still injecting the same amount of fuel and ingesting the same amount of air. Only difference is the fuel mixture is burning faster and more completely before the exhaust valve opens. The fuel gets burnt either way thus the registered AFR is the same, it just relative to where the piston is at in its mechanical efficiency point would be the difference. I suppose you might see lower EGTs as the combustion event is more complete by the time the valve opens. It’s a thought anyway.
MrFred...DOOOO ITTT!
Ha, although I know that would be a pretty difficult task as some of those main interrupts are difficult to follow.
Aaron, yeah, my thought is you would see no change anywhere except for power output. You are still injecting the same amount of fuel and ingesting the same amount of air. Only difference is the fuel mixture is burning faster and more completely before the exhaust valve opens. The fuel gets burnt either way thus the registered AFR is the same, it just relative to where the piston is at in its mechanical efficiency point would be the difference. I suppose you might see lower EGTs as the combustion event is more complete by the time the valve opens. It’s a thought anyway.
MrFred...DOOOO ITTT!
Ha, although I know that would be a pretty difficult task as some of those main interrupts are difficult to follow.
The only downside is keeping valves clean which is why some cars (BRZ) are a hybrid of port and direct.
I think the hybrid setup on the FR-S/BRZ was specifically to accomodate the aftermarket tuning the cars. Keeping the valves clean is likely just a side effect. That setup is odd though, I don't know if anything more has come up on it, but the logs Perrin put up showed the phase of how the port injector is used and the big drop in torque that is noted at 3500 RPM correlates to the same point where the motor is 100% direct injection. Seems odd to me as everything I've seen has shown the direct injection increase power while reducing BSFC. There should be a hump there instead of a dip, so who knows.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; May 15, 2013 at 07:26 AM.
I just bought me a set of these (sadly they did not fit in my AMS VR1 sheet metal IM, just needed to drill it out to get them to fit) They should be a huge change over my old RC1200s.
Lets see what the boys at English can do with the new FICs vs my old RCs
Lets see what the boys at English can do with the new FICs vs my old RCs
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
Likes: 78
From: Northwest
I think the hybrid setup on the FR-S/BRZ was specifically to accomodate the aftermarket tuning the cars. Keeping the valves clean is likely just a side effect. That setup is odd though, I don't know if anything more has come up on it, but the logs Perrin put up showed the phase of how the port injector is used and the big drop in torque that is noted at 3500 RPM correlates to the same point where the motor is 100% direct injection. Seems odd to me as everything I've seen has shown the direct injection increase power while reducing BSFC. There should be a hump there instead of a dip, so who knows.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
I think the hybrid setup on the FR-S/BRZ was specifically to accomodate the aftermarket tuning the cars. Keeping the valves clean is likely just a side effect. That setup is odd though, I don't know if anything more has come up on it, but the logs Perrin put up showed the phase of how the port injector is used and the big drop in torque that is noted at 3500 RPM correlates to the same point where the motor is 100% direct injection. Seems odd to me as everything I've seen has shown the direct injection increase power while reducing BSFC. There should be a hump there instead of a dip, so who knows.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
Subaru pulled the port injectors out on the turbo version of that motor.
http://www.intechopen.com/books/adva...jection-system
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/br...ing-has-begun/
Good article on the Toyota D4-S stuff.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; May 19, 2013 at 08:56 PM.
The better the spray/atomization, the more power there is to be made. They look like great injectors for sure.
I personally will be going with 235lb (just short of 2500cc) Moran Billet atomizers. They have low imp as large as 5250cc (500lb).
https://www.moranmotorsports.com/cat...er-injectors-0
I personally will be going with 235lb (just short of 2500cc) Moran Billet atomizers. They have low imp as large as 5250cc (500lb).
https://www.moranmotorsports.com/cat...er-injectors-0
EvoM Guru
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
If anyone is interested, here is ASNU's most recent response on the status of their larger injectors:
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...0#entry1285303
"We are still planning to release a higher flowing injector, but until all the testing has been completed and the injector has passed the endurance testing, then we will have an idea of when it will be released. I made myself look a bit of an idiot this time last year, we had the sample version, these are like the ones ID talk about, where they are specially made batches, we showed them at SEMA and PRI, expecting them to pass all the various tests carried out at Bosch but they fail the endurance test, so we could not release it, a bit embarrassing to say the least, I am sure other had other words for it.
Even after a modification, it failed again and Bosch we would not release an injector that failed any of their tests. We could have ordered and sold untested samples, but we would not take that risk with anyone’s car, so we wait and see how V3 turns out, if it passes we move forward, if it fails, then for us, having the option of a quality high flow Bosch injector will be gone.
Please note. We will not use the NGI2 LPG injector in our programme, even though we could supply them, we have often be asked for them, but Bosch do not support the use of this injector for oxygenated fuels, so we therefore comply with Bosch and will not use it in our Performance Injector Programme.
If V3 does become available, when we physically have them in our hands and they have been tested by some of our friends on this forum and the results from them are positive, then we will release them, but not before, making myself look a ******** once was enough, hate to give certain people something else to have a rant about.
This may not be the answer you guys are looking for from us, but it’s the truth and the best answer I can offer, thanks for your patience.
Phil."
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...0#entry1285303
"We are still planning to release a higher flowing injector, but until all the testing has been completed and the injector has passed the endurance testing, then we will have an idea of when it will be released. I made myself look a bit of an idiot this time last year, we had the sample version, these are like the ones ID talk about, where they are specially made batches, we showed them at SEMA and PRI, expecting them to pass all the various tests carried out at Bosch but they fail the endurance test, so we could not release it, a bit embarrassing to say the least, I am sure other had other words for it.
Even after a modification, it failed again and Bosch we would not release an injector that failed any of their tests. We could have ordered and sold untested samples, but we would not take that risk with anyone’s car, so we wait and see how V3 turns out, if it passes we move forward, if it fails, then for us, having the option of a quality high flow Bosch injector will be gone.
Please note. We will not use the NGI2 LPG injector in our programme, even though we could supply them, we have often be asked for them, but Bosch do not support the use of this injector for oxygenated fuels, so we therefore comply with Bosch and will not use it in our Performance Injector Programme.
If V3 does become available, when we physically have them in our hands and they have been tested by some of our friends on this forum and the results from them are positive, then we will release them, but not before, making myself look a ******** once was enough, hate to give certain people something else to have a rant about.
This may not be the answer you guys are looking for from us, but it’s the truth and the best answer I can offer, thanks for your patience.
Phil."
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Redmond Washington
Hmm, so just to be clear, the one that FIC calls the 1050cc SP is OK - does not have this problem with failing the Bosch endurance test? But the ones bigger than 1050cc that were planned - they fail this test? Is that what you get from this?
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From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
Correct, the 1050 and 1100 cc/min ASNU injectors passed the endurance tests. According to ASNU's statement, the larger ones will not be released until they have successfully passed the endurance tests.