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Freshly Built FP RED EVO Not Making Power

 
Old Jun 18, 2019, 06:20 AM
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Freshly Built FP RED EVO Not Making Power

Freshly Built FP RED EVO Not Making Power





Hello Gents,



I have a small issue and hopefully it won’t balloon into a big one. Previously I had an Evo IX stock Block with a FP RED & GSC S1 drop ins make 460 WHP and 400 FP’s of torque at 29PSI dropping down to 27PSI. at 26 PSI it made 420WHP and 350 FP’s which is where I kept it mostly.





I have recently built my motor. Block out and bored 0.02, 9.0-1 Compression 2.0 Liter. Added an AMS Intake manifold, GSC S2 Cams, Springs, and Retainers, Buschur Ported TB. Engine is fine runs good zero smoke and the turbo is healthy as well. Car has a AMS FMIC and AMS Turbo back 3.0 no Cat. Red is the BB variety.



I brought the car over to K.P. Tuning in PA this weekend and it barely made power. Can’t run over 6 degrees of timing or more than 24PSI without knock. KP stated it could be my FIC 1150 Injectors which I purchased used back in 2011 and have never them cleaned. KP said they may be dirty or not flowing well. He said the injectors have plenty of duty left in them but as I drive the car it is still pig rich, throttle tip in before boost it drops to the low 10’s in A/F.





Any advice? The attached Dyno is of a Dyno Jet which they said reads low but still, can’t run over 24PSI on a Red or timing?



Link to Dyno Run.

Thank you


Recent Build Dyno

Stock Bottom End Build. Boost here was 26PSI and 29PSI Respectively. This was on Ivey's Dynoject.









*Disclaimer*



I know you can’t compare different dynos and different setups and different tunes. K.P. was very safe with my vehicle and you can see he cares about the cars. My issue is that I can’t make power past 24PSI or add significant timing. Car is smooth and a little rich right now as I drive it, certainly better then when I brought it in for sure.





Thank you

Last edited by High_PSI; Jun 18, 2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 06:51 AM
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That's definitely a good place to start - anytime I ever get used injectors, they're always sent out to be cleaned. Was it holding fuel pressure? Do you have an aftermarket regulator?
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 07:07 AM
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Maybe I missed it, but what fuel are you running? If you have a set of 8year old injectors and you've never cleaned them, my guess would be that they are certainly not working like they should and need to be flow-tested and cleaned. I would take your tuner's advise. Pop those injectors out and send them out to be tested and cleaned or see if he recommends a different set of injectors as tuners usually have a preference.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ncdirtrider249 View Post
That's definitely a good place to start - anytime I ever get used injectors, they're always sent out to be cleaned. Was it holding fuel pressure? Do you have an aftermarket regulator?
Stock FPR. I have a Walboro 255LPH. KP said I have plenty of fuel and it is a stock frame turbo on pump gas so nothing spectacular. I run 93 Pump Gas.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 08:28 AM
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The Red makes around 420-450whp or so on 93 octane on STD correction on a dynojet. My stock engine would make 430whp on 22-23psi on pump gas ( I had access to E85 so I never ran it hard on pump gas) The AMS intake may be mismatched for a small turbo but it should still make more then a stock manifold at higher rpm.

In any case, I would start with a leak down and compression test.
Check physical timing
Are the charge pipes clean with no oil.
Spark plugs gapped to .018-.020 . (FWIW I ran one step colder then stock ) A small gap and a colder plug may make the car idle slightly worse but will help with cylinder pressure when its on the boost.
Coils in good shape or a good COP setup
Boost leak test with someone opening the TB open/close
Zip tie all vacuum lines

Decide if you are going to go with larger injectors/fuel pump to really make some power and add safety.

Your tuner can try adding race gas and adjusting the knock sensors to rule out false knock. Having the dyno set to low smoothing will show some clarity on how the car is responding .
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
The Red makes around 420-450whp or so on 93 octane on STD correction on a dynojet. My stock engine would make 430whp on 22-23psi on pump gas ( I had access to E85 so I never ran it hard on pump gas) The AMS intake may be mismatched for a small turbo but it should still make more then a stock manifold at higher rpm.

In any case, I would start with a leak down and compression test.
Check physical timing
Are the charge pipes clean with no oil.
Spark plugs gapped to .018-.020 . (FWIW I ran one step colder then stock ) A small gap and a colder plug may make the car idle slightly worse but will help with cylinder pressure when its on the boost.
Coils in good shape or a good COP setup
Boost leak test with someone opening the TB open/close
Zip tie all vacuum lines

Decide if you are going to go with larger injectors/fuel pump to really make some power and add safety.

Your tuner can try adding race gas and adjusting the knock sensors to rule out false knock. Having the dyno set to low smoothing will show some clarity on how the car is responding .


My Compression is 165 across the board. I realize MIVEC vehicles tend to read lower but 165 should be good enough. My compression is 9;0-1 with a Weisco piston and a Manly H-Beam Rod. Plugs are gapped way high to .40 that may have something to do with it but my tuner says .18 is stupid low and with such a tiny Arc you’ll never burn gas properly and gas mileage suffers tremendously.

I installed a Spoolinup COP back in 2011 and I love it. Wonder if the coils are old? Will boost leak again but it was tested prior to getting the car. The TB has been rebuilt by buschur and has new Thottle Shaft Seals..





Thank you

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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by High_PSI
My Compression is 165 across the board. I realize MIVEC vehicles tend to read lower but 165 should be good enough. My compression is 9;0-1 with a Weisco piston and a Manly H-Beam Rod. Plugs are gapped way high to .40 that may have something to do with it but my tuner says .18 is stupid low and with such a tiny Arc you’ll never burn gas properly and gas mileage suffers tremendously.

I installed a Spoolinup COP back in 2011 and I love it. Wonder if the coils are old? Will boost leak again but it was tested prior to getting the car. The TB has been rebuilt by buschur and has new Thottle Shaft Seals..





Thank you
There's your problem. Factory gap isn't even that big. You need to close the gap to .020". You're having misfires not knock.

Based on what your "tuner" said and how he couldn't tell misfire from knock, you need to find a new tuner before this guy ruins your car. Getting the injectors cleaned is a good idea, but you clearly have plenty of fuel and I don't think this will solve the issue. All my money is on that ridiculous plug gap.

If right gap kills fuel mileage, ask him why factory gap in an EvoX is .020".
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:36 AM
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Look's like you went to Ivey tune , he's a great tunner so that's not your problem.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharkbite2000 View Post
Look's like you went to Ivey tune , he's a great tunner so that's not your problem.


Previously I did. I just went to KP as Ivey is so hard to get as a tuner. KP is fantastic but tuned the car as it sat. I will look up my issues.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:44 AM
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They are 100% not fantastic if they are telling you to run .040" plug gap and then didn't understand why the car didn't make power and had a bunch of "knock" which was actually misfires.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
There's your problem. Factory gap isn't even that big. You need to close the gap to .020". You're having misfires not knock.

Based on what your "tuner" said and how he couldn't tell misfire from knock, you need to find a new tuner before this guy ruins your car. Getting the injectors cleaned is a good idea, but you clearly have plenty of fuel and I don't think this will solve the issue. All my money is on that ridiculous plug gap.

If right gap kills fuel mileage, ask him why factory gap in an EvoX is .020".


Yeah I just found this out. Next time I'll gap it myself.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:47 AM
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Great tunners are hard to get unless you spending $$$ on a big build!
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by High_PSI View Post
My Compression is 165 across the board. I realize MIVEC vehicles tend to read lower but 165 should be good enough. My compression is 9;0-1 with a Weisco piston and a Manly H-Beam Rod. Plugs are gapped way high to .40 that may have something to do with it but my tuner says .18 is stupid low and with such a tiny Arc you’ll never burn gas properly and gas mileage suffers tremendously.

I installed a Spoolinup COP back in 2011 and I love it. Wonder if the coils are old? Will boost leak again but it was tested prior to getting the car. The TB has been rebuilt by buschur and has new Thottle Shaft Seals..





Thank you
165psi sounds good.

Evo and mileage don't exactly go together but I ran .018-.020 on my car since the red went on and historically got 18-25 mpg on E85 or pump gas with 4.11 gearing . I would 100% close the gap from a prius style .040 gap. These cars make power and have cylinder pressure to deal with.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 10:57 AM
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In your video, what is that air sound kicking up a notch about a second after each gear change? Sounds like some sort of air leak after boost hitting a certain pressure.
On my phone, it's at the -26, -23, and -18 second marks.
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Old Jun 18, 2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 2006EvoIXer
In your video, what is that air sound kicking up a notch about a second after each gear change? Sounds like some sort of air leak after boost hitting a certain pressure.
On my phone, it's at the -26, -23, and -18 second marks.
It's probably the FAP compressor cover.
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