Evolved Member
I didnt think he was stating it was better. Jason puts tons of effort and research into all his endeavors.
Evolving Member
Quote:
Hey, if you have stock springs and retainers and are running a cam with any more lift than stock, pop off a reatiner and check it out, you will notice a nice polished circle where the reatiner is making contact with the valve stem seal, and a nicely deformed seal Originally Posted by umiami80
A vender stating that is product is better then everyone elses, how original.
I missed the "our product is better than others" statement! Just happens to be that a little R&D was done rather than copy the next guys...BTW...Thanks Dave!
Account Disabled
^^^^^^^^^
Wow so defenseive. Again your a vender stating that your product. Anyways,
this is where you say your stuff is better....
So your saying yoru spring is better then the competition? I am sorry I jusst do not trust venders who just jump in a thread and try to push a product, not saying your bad but MANY people have been burned by SH.IT parts. My Springs are fine, stock lift and such.
Wow so defenseive. Again your a vender stating that your product. Anyways,
this is where you say your stuff is better....
Quote:
Some/many aftermarket springs and retainers have the same problem. We have engineered an Evo specific spring and steel retainer package that has a lighter moving mass than the OEM and aftermarket Titanium kits. Our spring design is good for revs above 9000 and up to 12mm+ of lift.
Some/many aftermarket springs and retainers have the same problem. We have engineered an Evo specific spring and steel retainer package that has a lighter moving mass than the OEM and aftermarket Titanium kits. Our spring design is good for revs above 9000 and up to 12mm+ of lift.
So your saying yoru spring is better then the competition? I am sorry I jusst do not trust venders who just jump in a thread and try to push a product, not saying your bad but MANY people have been burned by SH.IT parts. My Springs are fine, stock lift and such.
EvoM Staff Alumni
At this point I'm thinking a look at the retainers would be in order before any more "***".
The more I look into these Revolver Cams, the more interested I become... still only interest though.
The more I look into these Revolver Cams, the more interested I become... still only interest though.
Evolving Member
Quote:
So your saying yoru spring is better then the competition?
I am saying that we found an interferance problem with stock, and all of the aftermarket spring/retainer combos we tested when running more than stock cam lift. After these findings we engineered a better solution - so yes, I am saying that our spring and retainer set is better than the competition. Who would want to say that they are worse?? Originally Posted by umiami80
So your saying yoru spring is better then the competition?
Quote:
We are not trying to push a product but rather to inform the Evo community of a potential problem area when running bigger cams on stock springs and retainers. Our kit fixes the problem AND gives you a lighter moving mass and higher rev ceiling. Its a win win situation for everybody Originally Posted by umiami80
I am sorry I jusst do not trust venders who just jump in a thread and try to push a product, not saying your bad but MANY people have been burned by SH.IT parts.
Account Disabled
Nobody wants to say there worse, but I can come on here and say I offer a turbo that spools like stock but flows enough for 500WHP on pump gas. A lot of venders will say/do anything to get their parts across. Just wondering why someone should accept your parts when teams like Buschur, HKS, Ferra, and so on make these items, we need some proof as to what you are selling is as good as you say it is, thats all.
Evolved Member
I think i will go with Buschurs springs and retainers. Their tensile strength is 120 and they can easily take 10,000 rpms, tried and proven .
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Evolved Member
didnt know our car can rev that high?!! i always shift at 7k nothing more and nothing less.
Account Disabled
The TRANNY starts to become a problem shifting that high. Also you need a turbo that can flow that high as well. Otherwise the 2.o can rev VERY high, very.
Evolved Member
Quote:
I didn't say our Stock Evos can rev that high, i said the springs and retainers can go that high with no problems, heck ask Buschur himself on them.Originally Posted by 4Gsixty3
didnt know our car can rev that high?!! i always shift at 7k nothing more and nothing less.
Evolving Member
The type of wire used in spring manufacture is just a small portion of what makes a spring good. Design and manufacturing methods will make or break a spring manufactured from the best steel alloys...BTW what is the natural frequency of those springs?
TENSILE STRENGTH
(Also called ultimate strength) - Breaking strength of a material when subjected to a tensile (stretching) force. Usually measured by placing a standard test piece in the jaws of a tensile machine, gradually separating the jaws, and measuring the stretching force necessary to break the test piece. Tensile strength is commonly expressed as pounds (or tons) per square inch of original cross section.
TENSILE STRENGTH
(Also called ultimate strength) - Breaking strength of a material when subjected to a tensile (stretching) force. Usually measured by placing a standard test piece in the jaws of a tensile machine, gradually separating the jaws, and measuring the stretching force necessary to break the test piece. Tensile strength is commonly expressed as pounds (or tons) per square inch of original cross section.
Evolving Member
good info here from Lane Meyers:
Quote:
As far as valve springs go....think of the camshaft as a bump in the road. With a suspension system, you have the spring, damper and tire. This system has a natural frequency (number of cycles before the object comes to rest in a static or steady state). The spring stores the energy and releases it, the damper helps control this released energy among many other things (but for this we'll keep it simple), and the tire also acts as a spring and damper within the sidewall and it too has a natural frequency (again another topic). Back to the bump, the damper slows the number of oscillations that would occur after the bump. Adding performace dampers increases the natural frequency, which to most everyone on this site, is a good thing.
The valve spring does not have the luxury of a separate damper to increase its natural frequency. This is what separates a good valve spring from a piece of coiled steel. When designing a spring to suit a system (camshaft and RPM range), generally a spring with a high natural frequecy is very desireable. The cam profile has everything to do with how the valve spring needs to be designed. The spring needs to have enough travel: Sc, to keep it from coil binding at max lift. The more radical the profile, the higher the frequency spring you want to allow itself to recover fully (not overshooting) so the valve is not floating or surging not matining contact with the cam. Seat pressure is also important, as too much is not a good thing. This is what makes the Ducati desmo system so f%$king cool.....it uses no springs, the cams open and close the valves, unfortunately, they are a **** to maintain. Too much spring rate can actaually rob power. Think about it....the engine has to work that much harder to overcome the additional force that opposes its direction of rotation. Yep, this is getting out there, but it is totally valid.
Tensile strength of the wire that is used allows you to optimize the valve spring design by using a smaller wire diameter (reducing valve train mass and allowing more travel) yet still mainting enough of a safety margin so that you are not overstressing the spring in it's designed environment. The grain structure aslo plays a major role in valve spring wire quality (another time on that one...this is long enough). An overstressed spring (i.e. poor design and/or poor materials and/or manufacturing methods and/or over rev) can lead to catastrophic failure in either buckling or breakage.....which usually leads to ventilated pistons........
As far as valve springs go....think of the camshaft as a bump in the road. With a suspension system, you have the spring, damper and tire. This system has a natural frequency (number of cycles before the object comes to rest in a static or steady state). The spring stores the energy and releases it, the damper helps control this released energy among many other things (but for this we'll keep it simple), and the tire also acts as a spring and damper within the sidewall and it too has a natural frequency (again another topic). Back to the bump, the damper slows the number of oscillations that would occur after the bump. Adding performace dampers increases the natural frequency, which to most everyone on this site, is a good thing.
The valve spring does not have the luxury of a separate damper to increase its natural frequency. This is what separates a good valve spring from a piece of coiled steel. When designing a spring to suit a system (camshaft and RPM range), generally a spring with a high natural frequecy is very desireable. The cam profile has everything to do with how the valve spring needs to be designed. The spring needs to have enough travel: Sc, to keep it from coil binding at max lift. The more radical the profile, the higher the frequency spring you want to allow itself to recover fully (not overshooting) so the valve is not floating or surging not matining contact with the cam. Seat pressure is also important, as too much is not a good thing. This is what makes the Ducati desmo system so f%$king cool.....it uses no springs, the cams open and close the valves, unfortunately, they are a **** to maintain. Too much spring rate can actaually rob power. Think about it....the engine has to work that much harder to overcome the additional force that opposes its direction of rotation. Yep, this is getting out there, but it is totally valid.
Tensile strength of the wire that is used allows you to optimize the valve spring design by using a smaller wire diameter (reducing valve train mass and allowing more travel) yet still mainting enough of a safety margin so that you are not overstressing the spring in it's designed environment. The grain structure aslo plays a major role in valve spring wire quality (another time on that one...this is long enough). An overstressed spring (i.e. poor design and/or poor materials and/or manufacturing methods and/or over rev) can lead to catastrophic failure in either buckling or breakage.....which usually leads to ventilated pistons........
okay so back to the lecture at hand. like i said in earlier posts i do have buschur valve spring and retainers but i just dont have the time and money to have them installed. and since hks cams do work with the stock valve springs and retainers i still want to have them put in nonetheless. but in the mean time while they're not on yet i just wanted to know how high i can rev with hks 264/264 and stock springs/retainers. that's all i need to know.