Motec M800 VS AEM Plug and Play
the m4pro doesn't have enough outputs to run an evo with all the street accessories and still do the important stuff like boost control. i wouldn't buy an m4 nowadays anyways since it is being phased out. and the software development on the older models is pretty much stopped.
i can get the m800 plug and play for about 3 g's. you may need a modified patch harness to get it to work because the pin out is for an evo 7.
i can get the m800 plug and play for about 3 g's. you may need a modified patch harness to get it to work because the pin out is for an evo 7.
Last edited by EFIxMR; Jan 3, 2005 at 07:01 PM.
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From: Texas...panhandle...ugh
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
i can get the m800 plug and play for about 3 g's..
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From: Sunny Singapore
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
the m4pro doesn't have enough outputs to run an evo with all the street accessories and still do the important stuff like boost control. i wouldn't buy an m4 nowadays anyways since it is being phased out. and the software development on the older models is pretty much stopped.
i can get the m800 plug and play for about 3 g's. you may need a modified patch harness to get it to work because the pin out is for an evo 7.
i can get the m800 plug and play for about 3 g's. you may need a modified patch harness to get it to work because the pin out is for an evo 7.
Originally Posted by BakZamGai
The M800 PNP for the Evos is available both for the Evo 7 and the Evo 8. I think the primary difference for you guys in the States is that the M800 PNPs are meant for the JDM models, so there's probably some pin-out issues that will need to be cleared up.
Here is the real deal
Here is the real deal guys.
Not true at all!
With those sensors wired in (like you would have to do with the MoTec) you can monitor them as well, no extra charge. AEMlog can already do track mapping
Same as above
You can't monitor all of that stuff with just the ECU, you have to have their dash, for the alarms as well. You can monitor the same things with the EMS.....no extra charge!
We have a peak n hold injector driver box that does the same thing, and you are still well under the price for a MoTec. The best part is, if you aren't running 1600cc injectors, you aren't paying the additional costs, which is 99.9% of our customer base......Your welcome!
Ours comes with 512k, the MoTec doesn't come with 1 meg, it is an upgrade which is $330.00. MoTecs maximum logging rate is 200 X a second, ours is 250 X a second. As for the CAN it doesn't work that way.
So is ours.
We both use the same 1% components, with SMT no difference here.
You don't "get that" with the MoTec....it costs you extra. Which is a $500.00 option, and you also need the Pro analysis software to log most anything you listed....which is ANOTHER $1250.00
You can already do these things with the AEM EMS. You don't have 20X40, but you don't need it either. You can't do individual cylinders in 3d on the MoTec, it is 2d....just like ours.
The systems you heard didn't have the limiters set up correctly, when they are set up correctly (now automatic) they work fantastic.
You can do this with the AEM as well.
This option with the MoTec is $1313.00 For $400, you can get NTK's controller and use it!
The only difference here is that we don't charge you additional money for everything you REALLY want.
The guys that I talk to that use MoTec systems and ours tell me hands down our support is better, and that is all I have to go on.
Just to clear things up a bit.
MoTec charges the additionally for all of the following, these do not come with the system
Telemetry - $ 980.00
Multispark control - $285.91 (this is just the capability, no hardware) (AEM Free)
Remote logging - $870.26
Servo enable - $300.02 ( to run DC butterflies I guess?)
1 Lambda sensor - $910.00 (Free with AEM)
a second lambda sensor - $403.20 (additional) (Free with AEM)
1Meg logging memory - $329.80 (512k free with AEM)
Sequential 10 cylinder - $490.83 (free with AEM)
Full logging capability - $1246.10 (Free with AEM)
Variable cam control - $500.00 (Free with AEM)
Drive by wire control - $561.60 (when released will be FREE from AEM).
So, not including the initial cost of the unit, you have to pay roughly an ADDITIONAL $5877.00 To get what you get for free with the AEM unit! The unit costs what.......$4000+???
Hope this helps!
Jason.[/quote]
Has anyone had experience with Motec vs AEM plug and play engine management system. I was reading about the Motec M800 that is for the Evo and I have not found a Price for it yet, However they say it will be comptitively priced (what ever that means). This Motec system is the same one featured in the FQ400 and I know this has to be a good system I just dont know how much better than the AEM system. Please give me a little feed back on you experienced racers. i have an m800 on my other car, and it is head and shoulders better than aem. its realistically not even in the same league. the aem isn't used in professional motorsports, and the motec is.
the motec can monitor brake pressure, g force, steering wheel angle, lap becon, damper acceleration, wheel speed, and with these inputs and standard engine sensors... it can basically draw your line on a racetrack.
it will tell you if you have oversteer/understeer, if your shocks are tuned properly, if you misshifted, if you braked in the right area, how hard you pressed on the brake, what percent you were full throttle, your cornering speed ect.
the m800 also has many different compensations like gear, altitude, egt, exhaust pressure, fuel pressure, fuel temp, ect. you can set the ecu to throw alarms on any sensor... a good idea would be to throw some temp sensors in your transmission, transfer case, or rear differential. it really flexible and up to your imagination/pocket book on what you want to do.
all motec ecu's have great injector drivers, for example of my drag car i run 1600cc bosch injectors. the idle is 1000-1100 rpm. and the a/f is 14.7. the car fires up on the first try 95% of time regardless of weather.
the m800 has 1 meg of on board memory, and would log your 30 minute session without sacrificing much sampling resolution. the m800 communicates via CAN cable which is significantly faster than serial, and the CAN cable allows it to communicate to other devices which follow the CAN protocol. you can essentially network a bunch of devices together provided they are programmed to do so.
the m800 software is also extremely stable and efficient. it will run flawlessly on old laptops... i tune with a pentium 233 mmx laptop... no need to bring my newer laptops to the racetrack where they would likely get damaged.
the construction of the motec hardware is also top notch. the hardware is extremely reliable and problems are most likely due to install error, physical damage, ect. for most people running this stuff... it cost them 5 to 10 thousand dollars just to show up at a race... and for the ecu to fail on them due to hardware issues is simply unacceptable. burned out drivers is unacceptable.
if we were to talk purely about engine tuning capabilities... here's some kool stuff motec does...sequential ignition w/ individual cylinder correction, but not just some generic retard or advance... we are talking about full 3d maps for every cylinder. the same thing can be done with the fuel.the main fuel and ign maps are 20 x 40.
You can already do these things with the AEM EMS. You don't have 20X40, but you don't need it either. You can't do individual cylinders in 3d on the MoTec, it is 2d....just like ours.
the launch control the system and rev limiters are just sick... they need to be heard to be appreciated. last time i heard an aem system doing the same thing... it sounded like the engine was going to explode.
various outputs can be triggered on 2d tables with constum configured axis.
the motec will also run a lab grade NTK wideband, which is known for lead gas resistance.
that's not to say aem sucks. but it is just not in the same class as motec.
some people complain that there isn't a community of support for the motec like there is for the aem... but to that... i say it isn't needed. if you buy a motec from motec usa... you can call their technicians and they will walk you thru whatever problem you have. you don't have to rely on joe blow on the internet... who could be essentially talking out of his ***... you can talk with a trained engineer. they don't have the massive volume of customers aem has... and they will give you individualized attention.
Just to clear things up a bit.
MoTec charges the additionally for all of the following, these do not come with the system
Telemetry - $ 980.00
Multispark control - $285.91 (this is just the capability, no hardware) (AEM Free)
Remote logging - $870.26
Servo enable - $300.02 ( to run DC butterflies I guess?)
1 Lambda sensor - $910.00 (Free with AEM)
a second lambda sensor - $403.20 (additional) (Free with AEM)
1Meg logging memory - $329.80 (512k free with AEM)
Sequential 10 cylinder - $490.83 (free with AEM)
Full logging capability - $1246.10 (Free with AEM)
Variable cam control - $500.00 (Free with AEM)
Drive by wire control - $561.60 (when released will be FREE from AEM).
So, not including the initial cost of the unit, you have to pay roughly an ADDITIONAL $5877.00 To get what you get for free with the AEM unit! The unit costs what.......$4000+???
Hope this helps!
Jason.[/quote]
which aem ecu has that many pinouts to do all the stuff you listed? correct me if im wrong, but isn't your evo plug and play box still running wasted spark? also to run a secondary wide band... wouldn't you have to buy another aem wideband unit? that's not really free. thats like me saying the motec has 8 free wideband inputs... according to what you're saying that's true... i'd just get 8 plm's.
i think its great that you opened up all the features in your software like track mapping ect. but this goes back to my original question... with what model ecu are you doing this with? i'm not trying to ask this question in a smartass tone or anything, but if you're running a plug and play aren't most of the pins taken up?
on the m800 you wouldn't necessarily need the dash to do all those inputs, you can get the 818 expander box. doing the alarms wouldnt be that hard. i run a cdi-8 also... so basically i have an extra 4 outputs from the injectors, extra 5 outputs from the ign drivers, and the 8 aux standard outputs. these can do alarms or triggers off any sensor. standard without the expander it can do 6 temps, and 8 voltage, and 4 digital inputs.
the CAN cable does work that way. I hooked up two wires to the CAN bus and the m800 i was doing was communicating to the ADL dash.
on my m800 i have NTK wideband, advanced functions, and 1 meg logging... I didn't pay anywhere near the price you're talking about.
and on customer service... you're BSing. i've called the aem service line before... and the guy on the phone was not helpful. this was back before the 1.03 days. while motec customer service is way better.
the car i was talking about... on teh nasty two step was tyler H an aem employee...
i think its great that you opened up all the features in your software like track mapping ect. but this goes back to my original question... with what model ecu are you doing this with? i'm not trying to ask this question in a smartass tone or anything, but if you're running a plug and play aren't most of the pins taken up?
on the m800 you wouldn't necessarily need the dash to do all those inputs, you can get the 818 expander box. doing the alarms wouldnt be that hard. i run a cdi-8 also... so basically i have an extra 4 outputs from the injectors, extra 5 outputs from the ign drivers, and the 8 aux standard outputs. these can do alarms or triggers off any sensor. standard without the expander it can do 6 temps, and 8 voltage, and 4 digital inputs.
the CAN cable does work that way. I hooked up two wires to the CAN bus and the m800 i was doing was communicating to the ADL dash.
on my m800 i have NTK wideband, advanced functions, and 1 meg logging... I didn't pay anywhere near the price you're talking about.
and on customer service... you're BSing. i've called the aem service line before... and the guy on the phone was not helpful. this was back before the 1.03 days. while motec customer service is way better.
the car i was talking about... on teh nasty two step was tyler H an aem employee...
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From: Singapore
If you're just someone learning about MoTeC you will be hard pressed to find anything written about it. For MoTeC, the dealers are expected to service the customer, not other customers. I'm not saying AEM does this, just that due to the popularity of AEM in North America, chances are someone has used it/or is using it and doesn't mind sharing experiences/tips.
Hope that makes some sense.
Hope that makes some sense.
Quote:
which aem ecu has that many pinouts to do all the stuff you listed?
ALL of them!
Quote:
correct me if im wrong, but isn't your evo plug and play box still running wasted spark?
The EVO is wasted spark, plug n play means you don't have to buy coils and rewire your stock wasted spark EVO.
Quote:
also to run a secondary wide band... wouldn't you have to buy another aem wideband unit? that's not really free. thats like me saying the motec has 8 free wideband inputs... according to what you're saying that's true... i'd just get 8 plm's.
You don't have to pay to turn on THE FEATURE, like you DO with MoTec. The charges for MoTec lambda option don't include O2 sensors or controllers, just the abilitlity to have O2 input.
Quote:
i think its great that you opened up all the features in your software like track mapping ect. but this goes back to my original question... with what model ecu are you doing this with? i'm not trying to ask this question in a smartass tone or anything, but if you're running a plug and play aren't most of the pins taken up?
No, all of our ecu's have more I/O than your M800!
Quote:
on the m800 you wouldn't necessarily need the dash to do all those inputs, you can get the 818 expander box.
Either way, additional charges will occur
Quote:
doing the alarms wouldnt be that hard. i run a cdi-8 also...
Additional charges again!
Quote:
so basically i have an extra 4 outputs from the injectors, extra 5 outputs from the ign drivers, and the 8 aux standard outputs. these can do alarms or triggers off any sensor. standard without the expander it can do 6 temps, and 8 voltage, and 4 digital inputs.
It doesn't have all of those extras when you are running ALL of the engine functions and standard sensors.
Quote:
the CAN cable does work that way. I hooked up two wires to the CAN bus and the m800 i was doing was communicating to the ADL dash.
Yes, it will run their stuff. That isn't what you said, you said you can connect anything "can" to it...you can't, just MoTec stuff.
Quote:
on my m800 i have NTK wideband, advanced functions, and 1 meg logging... I didn't pay anywhere near the price you're talking about.
Great! Those prices came DIRECTLY from MoTec, and ARE current!
Quote:
and on customer service... you're BSing. i've called the aem service line before... and the guy on the phone was not helpful. this was back before the 1.03 days. while motec customer service is way better.
That was a year ago, and I still talk to people today that state our tech support is MUCH better than MoTec's currently TODAY!
Quote:
the car i was talking about... on teh nasty two step was tyler H an aem employee...
Tylers car runs an MSD for the two step, he also runs anti-lag, you might want to try to understand what anti-lag is and how it sounds. Again, Tyler doesn't use the AEM two step.......nice try though.
Jason.
which aem ecu has that many pinouts to do all the stuff you listed?
ALL of them!
Quote:
correct me if im wrong, but isn't your evo plug and play box still running wasted spark?
The EVO is wasted spark, plug n play means you don't have to buy coils and rewire your stock wasted spark EVO.
Quote:
also to run a secondary wide band... wouldn't you have to buy another aem wideband unit? that's not really free. thats like me saying the motec has 8 free wideband inputs... according to what you're saying that's true... i'd just get 8 plm's.
You don't have to pay to turn on THE FEATURE, like you DO with MoTec. The charges for MoTec lambda option don't include O2 sensors or controllers, just the abilitlity to have O2 input.
Quote:
i think its great that you opened up all the features in your software like track mapping ect. but this goes back to my original question... with what model ecu are you doing this with? i'm not trying to ask this question in a smartass tone or anything, but if you're running a plug and play aren't most of the pins taken up?
No, all of our ecu's have more I/O than your M800!
Quote:
on the m800 you wouldn't necessarily need the dash to do all those inputs, you can get the 818 expander box.
Either way, additional charges will occur
Quote:
doing the alarms wouldnt be that hard. i run a cdi-8 also...
Additional charges again!
Quote:
so basically i have an extra 4 outputs from the injectors, extra 5 outputs from the ign drivers, and the 8 aux standard outputs. these can do alarms or triggers off any sensor. standard without the expander it can do 6 temps, and 8 voltage, and 4 digital inputs.
It doesn't have all of those extras when you are running ALL of the engine functions and standard sensors.
Quote:
the CAN cable does work that way. I hooked up two wires to the CAN bus and the m800 i was doing was communicating to the ADL dash.
Yes, it will run their stuff. That isn't what you said, you said you can connect anything "can" to it...you can't, just MoTec stuff.
Quote:
on my m800 i have NTK wideband, advanced functions, and 1 meg logging... I didn't pay anywhere near the price you're talking about.
Great! Those prices came DIRECTLY from MoTec, and ARE current!
Quote:
and on customer service... you're BSing. i've called the aem service line before... and the guy on the phone was not helpful. this was back before the 1.03 days. while motec customer service is way better.
That was a year ago, and I still talk to people today that state our tech support is MUCH better than MoTec's currently TODAY!
Quote:
the car i was talking about... on teh nasty two step was tyler H an aem employee...
Tylers car runs an MSD for the two step, he also runs anti-lag, you might want to try to understand what anti-lag is and how it sounds. Again, Tyler doesn't use the AEM two step.......nice try though.
Jason.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 363
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From: Singapore
Originally Posted by Crazy4Cars
Ours comes with 512k, the MoTec doesn't come with 1 meg, it is an upgrade which is $330.00. MoTecs maximum logging rate is 200 X a second, ours is 250 X a second. As for the CAN it doesn't work that way.
Originally Posted by Crazy4Cars
MoTec charges the additionally for all of the following, these do not come with the system
Telemetry - $ 980.00 (Available on AEM?)
Multispark control - $285.91 (this is just the capability, no hardware) (AEM Free)
Remote logging - $870.26 (Available on AEM?)
Servo enable - $300.02 ( to run DC butterflies I guess?)
1 Lambda sensor - $910.00 (Free with AEM) (First 5 hours on MoTeC are free... although yes you have to pay to enable it permanently)
a second lambda sensor - $403.20 (additional) (Free with AEM)
1Meg logging memory - $329.80 (512k free with AEM) (What happens if you need 1MB or more on AEM?)
Sequential 10 cylinder - $490.83 (free with AEM) (How does AEM handle 12 cylinders? Max RPM?)
Full logging capability - $1246.10 (Free with AEM)
Variable cam control - $500.00 (Free with AEM) (Does AEM cam control work with Double VANOS?)
Drive by wire control - $561.60 (when released will be FREE from AEM). (Will it work with BMW DBW throttle?)
Good discussion going here...
jason,
you're misinformed on the wideband issue. you don't need to have the wideband option enabled if you have a plm. the plm just connects right up and in the software you pick plm for 02 input and its unlimited use.
the CAN isn't just limited to motec stuff, the m800 will also connect to a racepak dash.
on tyler's car and antilag... my car will make just about as much boost off the line as i want also... it doesn't sound like tyler's car.
back to the I/O issue which i'm confused on. admittedly the only aem's i've used were on hondas, and mainly this is what has left me a sour taste. Maybe the EVO box is better.
on the honda box it appeared that there were no free pins left on the ecu, after plugging in the stock harness. it's not like there's an extra female socket on the side to do extra pin outs? what pins are free to do all the things you're talking about on the honda box?
i'd just assume this is the same case for the evo box. but of course i could be wrong. where do you connect the extra I/O's?
i know on my m800... i have more I/O's than i know what to do with.
i apologize for my condescending tone earlier. i'd like to learn more about the aem evo box, and possibly give it a try if it has improved from my previous experience.
you're misinformed on the wideband issue. you don't need to have the wideband option enabled if you have a plm. the plm just connects right up and in the software you pick plm for 02 input and its unlimited use.
the CAN isn't just limited to motec stuff, the m800 will also connect to a racepak dash.
on tyler's car and antilag... my car will make just about as much boost off the line as i want also... it doesn't sound like tyler's car.
back to the I/O issue which i'm confused on. admittedly the only aem's i've used were on hondas, and mainly this is what has left me a sour taste. Maybe the EVO box is better.
on the honda box it appeared that there were no free pins left on the ecu, after plugging in the stock harness. it's not like there's an extra female socket on the side to do extra pin outs? what pins are free to do all the things you're talking about on the honda box?
i'd just assume this is the same case for the evo box. but of course i could be wrong. where do you connect the extra I/O's?
i know on my m800... i have more I/O's than i know what to do with.
i apologize for my condescending tone earlier. i'd like to learn more about the aem evo box, and possibly give it a try if it has improved from my previous experience.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 363
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From: Singapore
Sorry, missed out this part....
MoTeC does allow you to adjust fuel and ignition on individual cylinders in 3D.
Originally Posted by Crazy4Cars
You can already do these things with the AEM EMS. You don't have 20X40, but you don't need it either. You can't do individual cylinders in 3d on the MoTec, it is 2d....just like ours.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by EFIxMR
jason,
you're misinformed on the wideband issue. you don't need to have the wideband option enabled if you have a plm. the plm just connects right up and in the software you pick plm for 02 input and its unlimited use.
you're misinformed on the wideband issue. you don't need to have the wideband option enabled if you have a plm. the plm just connects right up and in the software you pick plm for 02 input and its unlimited use.
the CAN isn't just limited to motec stuff, the m800 will also connect to a racepak dash.
on tyler's car and antilag... my car will make just about as much boost off the line as i want also... it doesn't sound like tyler's car.
back to the I/O issue which i'm confused on. admittedly the only aem's i've used were on hondas, and mainly this is what has left me a sour taste. Maybe the EVO box is better.
on the honda box it appeared that there were no free pins left on the ecu, after plugging in the stock harness. it's not like there's an extra female socket on the side to do extra pin outs? what pins are free to do all the things you're talking about on the honda box?
i'd just assume this is the same case for the evo box. but of course i could be wrong. where do you connect the extra I/O's?
i know on my m800... i have more I/O's than i know what to do with.
i apologize for my condescending tone earlier. i'd like to learn more about the aem evo box, and possibly give it a try if it has improved from my previous experience.
Jason.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
also, the paper specs of both computers are one thing, but the actual drivability and transient response of the two computers put on the same engine and i could tell the difference.
shiv