wow... really? I think you will be suprised with our findings dave.......... check our pictures



next



finally




not only is this false but is that a sentence?


well...... we went hollywood for you guys and made a small movie depicting the contact

right click - save as

again - we didnt start this thread.......... but we DID find this problem (8 months ago) and felt obligated to design and sell a product that solved the problem - not just cross our fingers and hope that other cam manufacturers/tuners had done this research.

Thanks for your support - we will continue to inform and innovate in the Evo community.

 

Wow, there is definitely contact there... the pictures are good, but the video is not very clear. Have you tested this on more than one head? I guess since no one has had a "failure" yet, that everyone believes it is not an issue.

I refuse to promote a pissing match between vendors... I believe that degrades the environment here on the forums. So I'll not take "sides" in this matter. However, if this is happening on other valve seals, I can't see how it would not cause premature wear. On the flip side, I can see how the seals would last a good while under this condition due to the lack of any shearing forces applied to the seal. I'm not comfortable with this and will be replacing mine.

A question to both vendors... can either of you see where this may effect some and not others? I can't see there being that much of a difference in the center line position of the cams from car to car, head to head. Having that loose a tolerance in the head castings would be unthinkable. However, I can see where a Manufacturer might use different vendors for cam seals having a different installed heights (they are of a rubber material) .

 

ogvw,

You have a PM...

 

This is the 3rd head we have tested off the car - all were the same. Every install we have done using HKS cams has shown the same wearpattern on the underside of the retainer, proving the contact.

 

good stuffs

 

ogvw, did you do the same test with the stock cams?

 

I didnt want this to become a pissing match by any means..... we were simply informing the Evo community of an issue that no one had noticed yet. The car is still very young so the premature wear to your valveseals might not show up for a while.....only mileage will tell.

I think that Dave Buschur must have assumed that the Evo head and valvetrain were the same as the DSM's - which they are not. Heres where it became personal for me...

then

I trust him too, he has built more DSM's than I could fathom, but I wasnt attacking him previous to this post.... then this

its just wrong... the retainers hit the seals.

 

stock cams are fine, no contact

only when you add a cam with higher lift do you get the contact

 

Thats exactlly what I was saying. There are guys with many thousands of miles on them without any problems, and I am one of those. If they where to hit the seals they would be destroyed in no time. I dont think the HKS engineers made a replacement cam for the evo without making claim that there would be some sort of upgrade needed to the valvetrain.

 

I believe HKS does recommend upgraded retainers and springs for there cams. Nobody does it though.

 

I think the reason is because the OEM retainers are made soo light that they had to reinforce the "keeper" area with additional material. Obvoiusly Mitsu never intends for someone to change the camshaft lift so its not even an issue for them - there is plenty of clearance with the OEM cams installed. Then guys like you and me want to get more power and we find stuff like this..... its cool really, we keep going - just a "bump in the road"

 

I thought the same thing...... hell I had HKS's in my car with stock springs and retainers. Maybe the USA and Japan heads are different?

 

again...we are not saying that there is going to be catastophic failure, seals are pliable, and maybe will withstand the abuse....maybe not. It doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is that the valve spring retainer makes contact with the valve stem seal with the HKS 264 cams......PERIOD! We just for the third time have proved this interference. You can "feel" the interference when you turn the cam, if you can't feel it you seriously have a major problem with your senses....it is there. There is no pissing match...It is just a fact, the contact exists. In the 15 years I have been involved in motorsports, I can't think of a single top level engine builder that would agree that this interference is acceptable.

 

oh...one more thing, the video, the last 3 seconds.....when the retainer is held pinned under the nose of the cam.....damn....we will get that posted right up....hang tight....

 

Just to be both clear and fair- Dave checked the 272's on the RS I belive, you are talking about the 264's Correct? That would make some difference. What is your experience with the 272s Revolver??