Mmmmm, precious.... (BWW)
Originally Posted by 954DRGSR
Wondering the same thing. What was the final setup that you went with?
Well, tuning was done on the street yesterday. I had a local guy named Brad Brooks do the tuning. We spent a total of about 4 hours tuning for drivability and WOT pulls. I don't have any dyno numbers yet. However I can give you some overall impressions.
I can say that this car is a beast and a blast to drive. The combination of the massaged head and increased displacement makes the GT35 VERY streetable. It's a very easy car to drive around town in a mild mannered fashion and yet it still has enough pep that you don't have to wring it out to get moving from stoplight to stoplight. Once you do decide to drop the hammer, make sure you've got some open space in front of you before you hit 4,000 rpm at full throttle. It's manageable and you can modulate it with your right foot but it does hit hard.
On the highway the car is a pleasure to drive. Cruising in fifth gear at 70-80mph is a joy. Casually accelerating to pass traffic DOES NOT require downshifting or any other drama. Simply plant your foot and the car will surge forward as the boost builds. Another nice aspect of this set up is the COMPLETE lack of compressor surge. So far I've found it to be completely non-existant in any gear, at any speed or load condition. The ported shroud does the job. In comparison the BR440 I had run previously would surge, especially in highway passing situations. I'm not sure if this was because of my installation or my combination of mods. The surging with the BR440 was never bad enough to cause bucking or complete compressor stall, but it was annoying.
A few other notes:
-The transmission I had rebuilt by TRE is great. Shifts are smooth as butta.
-The Exedy twin disk is great too. The pedal effort is as close to stock as I can remember and engagement is generally pretty smooth and pretty much grab free. It's been 9 months since I've driven a car with a clutch let alone this car so it's gonna take a few days to relearn my clutch pedal coordination.
-If you're looking for an in-dash WBO2 gauge, I would highly recommend the Innovative Motorsports XD-1/XC-1 combo. Installing this setup was pretty easy and integrating it with the AEM EMS was simple and straightforward. It only took about 15 minutes to specify the calibration in the EMS and to recalibrate and optimize the output of the XC-1.
If there is ANY aspect of this set up that is not streetable, it's the external wastegate dump and the frigging rediculously loud exhaust. I actually recieved a ticket yestrday from a cop with nothing better to do than use the current law on the books in Virginia as an excuse to shake down folks. I wasn't speeding nor was I wringing it out. The exhaust is just that loud. The loudness is the ONE thing that detracts from the driving experience. I love the sound of an unmuffled 4 cylinder at full tilt at the track but this thing has no place on the street. Imagine the loudest super sportbike you can imagine at WOT and you can begin to appreciate how loud this car is. My plan is to take the car over to Ultimate Performance and have Mike Gerber route the wastegate dump internally, rehang the exhaust to eliminate any rattles and then install one or more resonators to help tone down the raspy harshness generated under full throttle.
All out pump gas and C16 dyno runs will probably take place towards the end of August once I get back from vacation and I've had a chance to full break in the motor and the clutch.
I can say that this car is a beast and a blast to drive. The combination of the massaged head and increased displacement makes the GT35 VERY streetable. It's a very easy car to drive around town in a mild mannered fashion and yet it still has enough pep that you don't have to wring it out to get moving from stoplight to stoplight. Once you do decide to drop the hammer, make sure you've got some open space in front of you before you hit 4,000 rpm at full throttle. It's manageable and you can modulate it with your right foot but it does hit hard.
On the highway the car is a pleasure to drive. Cruising in fifth gear at 70-80mph is a joy. Casually accelerating to pass traffic DOES NOT require downshifting or any other drama. Simply plant your foot and the car will surge forward as the boost builds. Another nice aspect of this set up is the COMPLETE lack of compressor surge. So far I've found it to be completely non-existant in any gear, at any speed or load condition. The ported shroud does the job. In comparison the BR440 I had run previously would surge, especially in highway passing situations. I'm not sure if this was because of my installation or my combination of mods. The surging with the BR440 was never bad enough to cause bucking or complete compressor stall, but it was annoying.
A few other notes:
-The transmission I had rebuilt by TRE is great. Shifts are smooth as butta.
-The Exedy twin disk is great too. The pedal effort is as close to stock as I can remember and engagement is generally pretty smooth and pretty much grab free. It's been 9 months since I've driven a car with a clutch let alone this car so it's gonna take a few days to relearn my clutch pedal coordination.
-If you're looking for an in-dash WBO2 gauge, I would highly recommend the Innovative Motorsports XD-1/XC-1 combo. Installing this setup was pretty easy and integrating it with the AEM EMS was simple and straightforward. It only took about 15 minutes to specify the calibration in the EMS and to recalibrate and optimize the output of the XC-1.
If there is ANY aspect of this set up that is not streetable, it's the external wastegate dump and the frigging rediculously loud exhaust. I actually recieved a ticket yestrday from a cop with nothing better to do than use the current law on the books in Virginia as an excuse to shake down folks. I wasn't speeding nor was I wringing it out. The exhaust is just that loud. The loudness is the ONE thing that detracts from the driving experience. I love the sound of an unmuffled 4 cylinder at full tilt at the track but this thing has no place on the street. Imagine the loudest super sportbike you can imagine at WOT and you can begin to appreciate how loud this car is. My plan is to take the car over to Ultimate Performance and have Mike Gerber route the wastegate dump internally, rehang the exhaust to eliminate any rattles and then install one or more resonators to help tone down the raspy harshness generated under full throttle.
All out pump gas and C16 dyno runs will probably take place towards the end of August once I get back from vacation and I've had a chance to full break in the motor and the clutch.
Very cool! I was hoping for some numbers though. I thought you meant you were dyno tuning on Sunday, oh well. Congrats!
I can't wait to see the numbers and when this puppy spools.
I can't wait to see the numbers and when this puppy spools.
I have been doing my research on turbo kits recently since I am in the hunt for buying a kit soon, and I am just in awe with the full-race turbo kit. It is going to be between the AMS 3076r and the full-race kit. I would like to see some more info on the full-race kit though, #'s would be nice....
Originally Posted by scorke
So whats the word on dyno numbers?
Scorke
Scorke
It may turn out that the HKS 264s I currently have installed are too restrictive up top. The spool is very good using these cams and I'd hate to lose that. I'll have to do some research to find out what the best cam is for my application.
Originally Posted by propellerhead
I'll have to do some research to find out what the best cam is for my application.
Ted B
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...hreadid=131534
Luda https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...46#post2292646
Originally Posted by Ludikraut
And last, but certainly not least ... cam timing.
When I first got the car to break it in, the HKS 280 cams were installed straight up (0/0) and spool up was ... well ... less than optimal. The turbo would begin spooling around 3800 rpms, with full boost by maybe 4100, if not later. Needless to say, I wasn't very enthused or amused.
At this point a HUGE THANKS goes out to AMS, because they spent an inordinate amount of time troubleshooting the slow spool issue and were more than fair in what they charged me for labor.
Ultimately we finally got a decent baseline tune on the car, which would be Run 038. We did not adjust boost at all between runs, only timing. So, to summarize the runs (SAE correction):
Run 038: 344 whp, 300 tq - 0/0 - Baseline tune, 2nd worst spoolup, worst topend
Run 042: 358 whp, 303 tq - -2/-2 - didn't lose spoolup, much better topend
Run 043: 361 whp, 302 tq - -4/-4 - worst spoolup by far, best topend
Run 048: 356 whp, 314 tq - +2/+2 - slightly better spoolup, good topend, good torque
Run 054: 360 whp, 317 tq - +2/0 - Best spoolup, Best Torque, Best topend (just look at the curve)
I've also attached a second graph, comparing just the torque curves (uncorrected) ... IMO it's easier to see the differences.
So it looks like Ted B was 100% on the money when he decided on the +2/0 settings for his HKS 280s (running a TME turbo). Even with a bigger turbo (GT3071), there is no appreciable topend to be gained by retarding the HKS 280 cams. The gain in spoolup was significant, to the point where the car now spools up at 3500 rpms and hits full boost before 4000rpms.
l8r)
When I first got the car to break it in, the HKS 280 cams were installed straight up (0/0) and spool up was ... well ... less than optimal. The turbo would begin spooling around 3800 rpms, with full boost by maybe 4100, if not later. Needless to say, I wasn't very enthused or amused.
At this point a HUGE THANKS goes out to AMS, because they spent an inordinate amount of time troubleshooting the slow spool issue and were more than fair in what they charged me for labor.
Ultimately we finally got a decent baseline tune on the car, which would be Run 038. We did not adjust boost at all between runs, only timing. So, to summarize the runs (SAE correction):
Run 038: 344 whp, 300 tq - 0/0 - Baseline tune, 2nd worst spoolup, worst topend
Run 042: 358 whp, 303 tq - -2/-2 - didn't lose spoolup, much better topend
Run 043: 361 whp, 302 tq - -4/-4 - worst spoolup by far, best topend
Run 048: 356 whp, 314 tq - +2/+2 - slightly better spoolup, good topend, good torque
Run 054: 360 whp, 317 tq - +2/0 - Best spoolup, Best Torque, Best topend (just look at the curve)
I've also attached a second graph, comparing just the torque curves (uncorrected) ... IMO it's easier to see the differences.
So it looks like Ted B was 100% on the money when he decided on the +2/0 settings for his HKS 280s (running a TME turbo). Even with a bigger turbo (GT3071), there is no appreciable topend to be gained by retarding the HKS 280 cams. The gain in spoolup was significant, to the point where the car now spools up at 3500 rpms and hits full boost before 4000rpms.
l8r)
Well, maybe dismal is a stong word. I was definately dissapoint but perhaps I had high expectations. I would have been happier to crack 400whp. Really I know the number means nothing except as a baseline.
I've got a few things on my list of things to do before I go back to tuning. First, I need to check for boost leaks. I haven't done anything since I assembled everything. Second, I want to degree the cams. They're probably fine but really I have no idea. Third, I think I'm going to pick up a set of the 280s and some adjustable cam gears. I'll degree the new cams and experiment with dialing in some timing changes. Lastly, I need to finish my water injection installation. WI should allow me to run at least 23-24psi of boost.
Oh well... Rome wasn't built in a day.
I've got a few things on my list of things to do before I go back to tuning. First, I need to check for boost leaks. I haven't done anything since I assembled everything. Second, I want to degree the cams. They're probably fine but really I have no idea. Third, I think I'm going to pick up a set of the 280s and some adjustable cam gears. I'll degree the new cams and experiment with dialing in some timing changes. Lastly, I need to finish my water injection installation. WI should allow me to run at least 23-24psi of boost.
Oh well... Rome wasn't built in a day.