Should i get cams or alchy injection?
Originally Posted by Ted B
Even 272s can be made to idle like a stocker and run butter smooth (been there, done that). It requires a set of adjustable cam gears and appropriate cam timing to do this. You'll give up a little spool, but it makes very good power. Given the same configuration, even 280s can be tamed in the same fashion.
Just FYI.
Just FYI.
aaaand emission part??
btw nothing will be as smooth as stock cams period.
Originally Posted by Az3ar
aaaand emission part??
btw nothing will be as smooth as stock cams period.
btw nothing will be as smooth as stock cams period.
Timed such as to widen the LSA, 272s do idle like the stock cams, period. Been there, done that, even dyno tested it.
And as for emissions, I strongly suspect a set of 272s will pass emissions - again, if timed as I stated. Widening the LSA cleans up the low speed efficiency and makes the engine run much cleaner at idle and part throttle settings.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 143
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From: Spfld, MO
Originally Posted by Rudy
I say cams should be first. You'll be happy. They make a huge power difference. I already have cams and thinking about the alki but I'm still not sure if it's worth the risk. I've heard a lot of good stories about them but I've also read some nasty stories.
BTW I think you could gain more with alky and a tune than cams.
Originally Posted by Ted B
Well, I've certainly demonstrated it to myself and another forum member, so consider my account first-hand experience and not speculation. But this isn't any big mystery if one understands cam dynamics.
Timed such as to widen the LSA, 272s do idle like the stock cams, period. Been there, done that, even dyno tested it.
And as for emissions, I strongly suspect a set of 272s will pass emissions - again, if timed as I stated. Widening the LSA cleans up the low speed efficiency and makes the engine run much cleaner at idle and part throttle settings.
Timed such as to widen the LSA, 272s do idle like the stock cams, period. Been there, done that, even dyno tested it.
And as for emissions, I strongly suspect a set of 272s will pass emissions - again, if timed as I stated. Widening the LSA cleans up the low speed efficiency and makes the engine run much cleaner at idle and part throttle settings.
And how do you explain a guy here felling emissions with 272 cams?
Originally Posted by Ted B
Well, I've certainly demonstrated it to myself and another forum member, so consider my account first-hand experience and not speculation. But this isn't any big mystery if one understands cam dynamics.
Timed such as to widen the LSA, 272s do idle like the stock cams, period. Been there, done that, even dyno tested it.
And as for emissions, I strongly suspect a set of 272s will pass emissions - again, if timed as I stated. Widening the LSA cleans up the low speed efficiency and makes the engine run much cleaner at idle and part throttle settings.
Timed such as to widen the LSA, 272s do idle like the stock cams, period. Been there, done that, even dyno tested it.
And as for emissions, I strongly suspect a set of 272s will pass emissions - again, if timed as I stated. Widening the LSA cleans up the low speed efficiency and makes the engine run much cleaner at idle and part throttle settings.
HAHAHA. Just like your experience that 100% Methanol was not better than water dilutted into it. And now you run 100% methanol. Give me a break, actually show us some proof how a person can pass emissions with the cam gear timing marks changed.
Tell you what, when you find enough brainpower to comprehend how cams work and understand how cam timing affects factors like mixture, burn efficiency, and volumetric efficiency, then you won't *need* me to explain to you why cam timing contributes significantly to emissions quality.
And as far as the methanol, I certainly did learn something, and applied it very effectively.
And as far as the methanol, I certainly did learn something, and applied it very effectively.
Originally Posted by Ted B
Tell you what, when you find enough brainpower to comprehend how cams work and understand how cam timing affects factors like mixture, burn efficiency, and volumetric efficiency, then you won't *need* me to explain to you why cam timing contributes significantly to emissions quality.
.
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Again with your worthless insults. Most of us know how cams work
in fact I know how to build engines so when you tell me how cams work I will laugh at you. I have a guy here in DC who failed emissions. Bring your car up here and show me how it will pass. Bring me prove as I did bring you prove... hard headed people are nasty Just for your info bud VA and Cali have the most strict cars law in the US. If you have cams in Cali they will throw you out of the smog shop.
Look guys i have talked to Ted and he really knows what he is talking about. He has done mutliple test on cam timing and has really come out with some interesting results. So i wouldnt be putting him down so quick. And if you read his post he said "he thinks!" it would pass he never said a for sure. But i do have to agree that with camshafts and right cam timing and right tunning you can pass emissions.
But if you just throw some cams in your car and take off even with changing the cam timing i think you will have a very hard time trying to pass. Allot of it is going to be in the tune and the cam settings themselves.
Anyway for the most part both of you are right. It is possible to pass emissions with cams if everything is done right but on the other hand just throwing cams into the car will cause you all kinds of problems at the sniffer!
Just my 0.02
Chris
But if you just throw some cams in your car and take off even with changing the cam timing i think you will have a very hard time trying to pass. Allot of it is going to be in the tune and the cam settings themselves.
Anyway for the most part both of you are right. It is possible to pass emissions with cams if everything is done right but on the other hand just throwing cams into the car will cause you all kinds of problems at the sniffer!
Just my 0.02
Chris
Thanks Chris.
To explain what happens, cams with longer duration increase overlap, which tends to reduce combustion efficiency at low speeds. This has a profound effect on HC emissions and is an aggravating factor that contributes to a lopey idle.
Why?
Simply because some of the unburned fuel charge is able to go through the intake valve, and right out the exhaust valve (unburned) during overlap at low engine speeds. This upsets the fuel mixture and creates dirty exhaust gases.
The catalytic converter is able to make up for a portion of this, but the rest goes straight to the HC sniffer, and the car will fail the test.
If we use our cam gears to reduce the overlap, we improve the low speed combustion efficiency by reducing the amount of unburned fuel that can make its way through the exhaust. When this is done with long overlap cams, one can hear the exhaust idle become much smoother - like stock. When the car is idling very smoothly, this indicates it is running efficiently at low speeds, which greatly improves the chances of passing the sniffer test.
Anyone with cam gears and a set of long overlap cams (e.g. HKS 272s or 280s) can verify this in 10 minutes.
To explain what happens, cams with longer duration increase overlap, which tends to reduce combustion efficiency at low speeds. This has a profound effect on HC emissions and is an aggravating factor that contributes to a lopey idle.
Why?
Simply because some of the unburned fuel charge is able to go through the intake valve, and right out the exhaust valve (unburned) during overlap at low engine speeds. This upsets the fuel mixture and creates dirty exhaust gases.
The catalytic converter is able to make up for a portion of this, but the rest goes straight to the HC sniffer, and the car will fail the test.
If we use our cam gears to reduce the overlap, we improve the low speed combustion efficiency by reducing the amount of unburned fuel that can make its way through the exhaust. When this is done with long overlap cams, one can hear the exhaust idle become much smoother - like stock. When the car is idling very smoothly, this indicates it is running efficiently at low speeds, which greatly improves the chances of passing the sniffer test.
Anyone with cam gears and a set of long overlap cams (e.g. HKS 272s or 280s) can verify this in 10 minutes.