Performance vs. Rear Wing
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Originally posted by Coolguy949
The way I look at it, the big wing is a signature component on the Evo. Every Evo from day one has had the same relative rear wing. It's one of the things that defines the Evo. To me, it's not even a thought in my mind to get an Evo without it. It's like getting a camaro SS without the ram air hood.
Rob
The way I look at it, the big wing is a signature component on the Evo. Every Evo from day one has had the same relative rear wing. It's one of the things that defines the Evo. To me, it's not even a thought in my mind to get an Evo without it. It's like getting a camaro SS without the ram air hood.
Rob
From what I got, he doesn't like the big spoiler cuz its too flashy or wants to be different or whatever. He just wants to know if it have a negative performance impact by not having it. So you personal tastes aren't what he's asking for, please don't add more confusion to the matter.
Originally posted by ratboy128
actually a spoiler does help with conering in a fwd car at high speeds, thats why on speedvision the realtime integra type rs have one of thos big wings i think, but the rear spoiler on the evo might actually help cornering on a windy road with high speeds like hwy 17, i'm not saying you should go buy one of those cheesy huge aluminum spoilers for a street fwd car though because the drag will probably slow you down more than the cornering at high speeds would be helped.
actually a spoiler does help with conering in a fwd car at high speeds, thats why on speedvision the realtime integra type rs have one of thos big wings i think, but the rear spoiler on the evo might actually help cornering on a windy road with high speeds like hwy 17, i'm not saying you should go buy one of those cheesy huge aluminum spoilers for a street fwd car though because the drag will probably slow you down more than the cornering at high speeds would be helped.
Truth is: You will actually have slightly better performance 99% of the time with the smaller spoiler. Even on mountain roads, you will have to be going at least 60 if not 70+ mph for the big spoiler to have a noticable effect. I GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT FLIP UPSIDE DOWN GOING STRAIGHT ON THE FWY W/OUT THE BIG SPOILER, despite possible claims of others on this forum. In fact, despite the Big spoiler having CF in it, it weighs more than the small one and has more drag!
So unless you have an actual technical point to bring out on this subject, let Superstar have his own opinion as to personal tastes.
Originally posted by ChrisEVO
I've seen a few without the wing and to be honest the car looks really ugly, since it's already now a very balanced car design-wise...even the small one they had for the evo7 GT-A was no good...
I've seen a few without the wing and to be honest the car looks really ugly, since it's already now a very balanced car design-wise...even the small one they had for the evo7 GT-A was no good...
aaaargh!!! hahaa
Last edited by BlackLoTuS; Feb 25, 2003 at 02:58 AM.
Geez, how could I have been so stupid! 
I'm so sorry blacklotus for making you have to write such a long post correcting me because of my sheer stupidity. I'll try not to put you in that horrible situation again! 
However, I will add this to my response and refute what you say:
According to AutoWeek and the VP of Sales for Mitsu, if you want ultimate performance you'll want to get the high wing. I understand that the wing probably isnt fully utilized outside of track conditions but I HIGHLY doubt the smaller, (probably HEAVIER) non-carbon fiber spoiler will perforrm better than having having the larger wing. You say the bigger one weights more?.....prove it please. I would think if Mitsu knew this they wouldn't have equipped their rally versions with the same exact wing....which you imply, degrades performance.
I'm so sorry blacklotus for making you have to write such a long post correcting me because of my sheer stupidity. I'll try not to put you in that horrible situation again! However, I will add this to my response and refute what you say:
According to AutoWeek and the VP of Sales for Mitsu, if you want ultimate performance you'll want to get the high wing. I understand that the wing probably isnt fully utilized outside of track conditions but I HIGHLY doubt the smaller, (probably HEAVIER) non-carbon fiber spoiler will perforrm better than having having the larger wing. You say the bigger one weights more?.....prove it please. I would think if Mitsu knew this they wouldn't have equipped their rally versions with the same exact wing....which you imply, degrades performance.
Last edited by Coolguy949; Feb 25, 2003 at 02:43 AM.
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Originally posted by Coolguy949
Geez, how could I have been so stupid! I'm so sorry blacklotus for making you have to write such a long post correcting me because of my sheer stupidity. I'll try not to put you in that horrible situation again!
However, I will add this to my response and refute what you say:
According to AutoWeek and the VP of Sales for Mitsu, if you want ultimate performance you'll want to get the high wing. I understand that the wing probably isnt fully utilized outside of track conditions but I HIGHLY doubt the smaller, (probably HEAVIER) non-carbon fiber spoiler will perforrm better than having having the larger wing. You say the bigger one weights more?.....prove it please. I would think if Mitsu knew this they wouldn't have equipped their rally versions with the same exact wing....which you imply, degrades performance.
Geez, how could I have been so stupid!
I'm so sorry blacklotus for making you have to write such a long post correcting me because of my sheer stupidity. I'll try not to put you in that horrible situation again! However, I will add this to my response and refute what you say:
According to AutoWeek and the VP of Sales for Mitsu, if you want ultimate performance you'll want to get the high wing. I understand that the wing probably isnt fully utilized outside of track conditions but I HIGHLY doubt the smaller, (probably HEAVIER) non-carbon fiber spoiler will perforrm better than having having the larger wing. You say the bigger one weights more?.....prove it please. I would think if Mitsu knew this they wouldn't have equipped their rally versions with the same exact wing....which you imply, degrades performance.
I stated that it would help on a track and in real racing. All I said is that in 99% of street driving conditions it would not help one bit.
Also, only the centerpart of the spoiler has CF on it and it is carbon-fiber reinforced plastic. There is physically far less material on the smaller spoiler. Prove me wrong...
I dont know if you've seen the "smaller" spoiler but it's actually quite large. It's the same spoiler offered on the regular Lancer. It also has three points that touch down, not two like the high spoiler.
The centerpeice on the high wing is not plastic reinforced with CF, it's solid CF from what i've read and seen in person. The two ends are the only plastic (mostly likely polyurethane) peices on the spoiler setup.
Lets just say the high wing is heavier, howmuch performance loss do you think one or two lbs is going to give a car pushing out almost 300HP/300lb-ft of torque? You probably wont notice it.
It's up to him whether he gets it or not. My original post was my opinion on the whole thing. I thought it could be some food for thought. Sometimes people dont realize the importance of the high wing to the Evo's heritage. This is a forum, it's open to whomever to say whatever they want. I thought it was a valid post.
"Small Wing"
High Wing:
The centerpeice on the high wing is not plastic reinforced with CF, it's solid CF from what i've read and seen in person. The two ends are the only plastic (mostly likely polyurethane) peices on the spoiler setup.
Lets just say the high wing is heavier, howmuch performance loss do you think one or two lbs is going to give a car pushing out almost 300HP/300lb-ft of torque? You probably wont notice it.
It's up to him whether he gets it or not. My original post was my opinion on the whole thing. I thought it could be some food for thought. Sometimes people dont realize the importance of the high wing to the Evo's heritage. This is a forum, it's open to whomever to say whatever they want. I thought it was a valid post.
"Small Wing"
High Wing:
Last edited by Coolguy949; Feb 25, 2003 at 03:45 AM.
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blacklotus, i never said you would flip over on the freeway without it, i said if your going fast on a windy freeway or racetrack or whatever i might help grip. i know thats the stock itr wing and thats why it has it i was thinking the race cars had a diffrent spoiler. also a lot of people do go faster than 60 or 70 on mountain roads i know the evo could do that because a usdm lancer can so if the spoiler helps at that speed on those roads it may be worth it, althought i don't really think it would be that noticeable. but a lot of cars do have spoilers for high speed stability, porsche spoilers pop up at 75+mph and i don't think the porsche engineers did that just for the hell of it, i've heard the wing on the boxter is needed for stability at 90+ mph.
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ya Blacklotus that's exactly what I meant. I wnated to if you guys thought there would be a big difference in performance from the smaller one to the larger one. I don't even think the small ones that small and like it cause i don't like to be to showy, and think its a little to much for my taste.. I'm sure it would help at like 90, but i don't think too much from what you guys are agreeing on. or at lesat to really have to change your driving style or speed by anymore then turning in a little earlier....I think that's what i'm hearin from both sides and its just a matter or taste in my point of view. Personally, I think an evo's an evo caseu of the performance! a wing isn't gonna kill its good looks..just downplay it a little bit
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The ITR rear wing is meant to balance the downforce on the Type R's. Because the front of the car generates soo much downforce over it's long hood, the rear wing was needed to plant the rear a bit at speed.
And judging by the looks of the 2 spoiler choices on the Evo, it seems to me that they both would have similar weight and frontal cross sections....so I'd bet the only advantage to be had(aerodynamic or otherwise) in regards to the wing choice would be to not install one at all.
Up to the point where you actually need a wing for downforce, it is just sticking out in the wind creating drag, slowing your cars progress through the wind, and decreasing your mpg.
SC~ who just likes the looks of the big wing.
And judging by the looks of the 2 spoiler choices on the Evo, it seems to me that they both would have similar weight and frontal cross sections....so I'd bet the only advantage to be had(aerodynamic or otherwise) in regards to the wing choice would be to not install one at all.
Up to the point where you actually need a wing for downforce, it is just sticking out in the wind creating drag, slowing your cars progress through the wind, and decreasing your mpg.
SC~ who just likes the looks of the big wing.
Last edited by Secret Chimp; Feb 25, 2003 at 09:41 AM.
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Originally posted by ratboy128
blacklotus, i never said you would flip over on the freeway without it, i said if your going fast on a windy freeway or racetrack or whatever i might help grip. i know thats the stock itr wing and thats why it has it i was thinking the race cars had a diffrent spoiler. also a lot of people do go faster than 60 or 70 on mountain roads i know the evo could do that because a usdm lancer can so if the spoiler helps at that speed on those roads it may be worth it, althought i don't really think it would be that noticeable. but a lot of cars do have spoilers for high speed stability, porsche spoilers pop up at 75+mph and i don't think the porsche engineers did that just for the hell of it, i've heard the wing on the boxter is needed for stability at 90+ mph.
blacklotus, i never said you would flip over on the freeway without it, i said if your going fast on a windy freeway or racetrack or whatever i might help grip. i know thats the stock itr wing and thats why it has it i was thinking the race cars had a diffrent spoiler. also a lot of people do go faster than 60 or 70 on mountain roads i know the evo could do that because a usdm lancer can so if the spoiler helps at that speed on those roads it may be worth it, althought i don't really think it would be that noticeable. but a lot of cars do have spoilers for high speed stability, porsche spoilers pop up at 75+mph and i don't think the porsche engineers did that just for the hell of it, i've heard the wing on the boxter is needed for stability at 90+ mph.
That's why you get posts in threads claiming your motor will blow up with supercharger and turbo cuz too much wind passes through.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ht=super+turbo
My personal OPINION is that I like the big spoiler and that is the one I would choose. But when somebody looks at it and says "God that's a huge spoiler, does it need to be that big?" I'm not gonna tell them cuz it gives me better cornering at high speeds, I'll tell them its because I like it. I mean if you truly were making no compromises for a racecar, you would not get an EVO. Its just too expensive and heavy to really race. Face it, we all have to make compromises when choosing/modifying the car (even full-blown racecars do), it just depends on how much we're willing to compromise. The fastest racecar wouldn't even have a person in it if possible. I just don't like people claiming that everything in their car makes it faster in every situation when its a street car.
Besides, Superstar was not asking for opinions, he was asking for technical advice. I didn't mean to attack anyone on the board though, so I apologize for sounding harsh.
Last edited by BlackLoTuS; Feb 25, 2003 at 09:35 AM.
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BlackLotus,
I wanna thank you a lot though.....It didn't seem to me at any time that you where offending anyone at all....its a good discussion. True i was asking for technical advice, but the imput on the looks i was very happy to hear differnt points of view. it makes it interesting. I think I had made some kinda joke with the flipping over somewere, so I might have started that thing heh...Ya i also agree with i get mad when people are like, o ya this yellow hood on my car reflects light so the engine's cooler and it gets 10 more hp, etc so good point. Ya i hadn't thought their was much of a differnce in the wing thing, except that it looked bigger, and had slight performance pro's....good stuff
I wanna thank you a lot though.....It didn't seem to me at any time that you where offending anyone at all....its a good discussion. True i was asking for technical advice, but the imput on the looks i was very happy to hear differnt points of view. it makes it interesting. I think I had made some kinda joke with the flipping over somewere, so I might have started that thing heh...Ya i also agree with i get mad when people are like, o ya this yellow hood on my car reflects light so the engine's cooler and it gets 10 more hp, etc so good point. Ya i hadn't thought their was much of a differnce in the wing thing, except that it looked bigger, and had slight performance pro's....good stuff
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I don't think the small wing looks to bad. not to showy, but a nice sporty touch........let me know, i'm intersted to see what u guys think
I don't think the small wing looks to bad. not to showy, but a nice sporty touch........let me know, i'm intersted to see what u guys think
Originally posted by BlackLoTuS
You know what guys, I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk its just that I'm pissed off at stupid ricers claiming that these huge, heavy aero kits and spoilers, 18-20" chrome rims, 1500 watt sound systems and DVD/Playstation with neon lighting provide better performance.
You know what guys, I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk its just that I'm pissed off at stupid ricers claiming that these huge, heavy aero kits and spoilers, 18-20" chrome rims, 1500 watt sound systems and DVD/Playstation with neon lighting provide better performance.
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Originally posted by ratboy128
blacklotus, i never said you would flip over on the freeway without it, i said if your going fast on a windy freeway or racetrack or whatever i might help grip. i know thats the stock itr wing and thats why it has it i was thinking the race cars had a diffrent spoiler. also a lot of people do go faster than 60 or 70 on mountain roads i know the evo could do that because a usdm lancer can so if the spoiler helps at that speed on those roads it may be worth it, althought i don't really think it would be that noticeable. but a lot of cars do have spoilers for high speed stability, porsche spoilers pop up at 75+mph and i don't think the porsche engineers did that just for the hell of it, i've heard the wing on the boxter is needed for stability at 90+ mph.
blacklotus, i never said you would flip over on the freeway without it, i said if your going fast on a windy freeway or racetrack or whatever i might help grip. i know thats the stock itr wing and thats why it has it i was thinking the race cars had a diffrent spoiler. also a lot of people do go faster than 60 or 70 on mountain roads i know the evo could do that because a usdm lancer can so if the spoiler helps at that speed on those roads it may be worth it, althought i don't really think it would be that noticeable. but a lot of cars do have spoilers for high speed stability, porsche spoilers pop up at 75+mph and i don't think the porsche engineers did that just for the hell of it, i've heard the wing on the boxter is needed for stability at 90+ mph.
I'm curious about other posters here, how many of you participate in organized motorsports activities and what kind. If not, I recommend that you go to www.solo2.com (if you're in CA). Its a really enjoyable experience and you can learn a lot about how to really control your car, not like couch racing on the PS2. Don't think you need to have a fast car to do it either. It's all about driver skill and its easier to learn on a slower car first anyways. It is fun seeing the occasional porshe or nsx get beat by a good driver in a beat-up looking 84 Corolla GTS (of course I give the drivers of the expensive cars much respect for actually wanting to learn to drive their cars fast, unlike most). In drag racing its more about the car, in Autox/track its about the driver. You can have an experienced instructor take the wheel of your car and show you the line and then have him sit shotgun to give you pointers. Go on a Sat for a practice, you get more seat time and its not competitive. Everyone is freindly and helpful, don't be afraid to ask for help/pointers, I do all the time. I would love to see more new people taking up this hobby and it helps keep the streets a little safer.
For some really good info on how to mod your car go to http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=52 its the best advice you can get on REALLY making your car fast.
Oh, and coolguy, ricers are everywhere and yes there are even some in this forum.
Last edited by BlackLoTuS; Feb 26, 2003 at 03:09 AM.