best front mount intercooler?
the hks intercooler is a piece of trash. i'll tell you why. it's an intercooler built on bandaids. first they want a high flowing core, so they make the intercooler extruded tube design like the greddy vspec. then they find out that doens't cool for crap... so they then add some other tubes that have fins in them. then they want it to be kinda light, so they don't add too many fins. half of it is letting air through and the other half is restrictive flow so air can be cooled. this is so stupid. just take the time to put square fins in... and you don't have that problem.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
if you want to decrease the resistance you can make the resistor fatter, this is the equivalent to adding more tubes in the intercooler, more channels for air to go down, less resistance more flow, less voltage drop.
now if you make the resistor too big then it will take a while for it to reach it's opperating capacity (heat up) and stuff like that... if you make the intercooler too big, it'll take a long time to fill it wtih air (electricity for the circuit).
it's not completely apples to apples but i hope that helps.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
if you want to decrease the resistance you can make the resistor fatter, this is the equivalent to adding more tubes in the intercooler, more channels for air to go down, less resistance more flow, less voltage drop.
now if you make the resistor too big then it will take a while for it to reach it's opperating capacity (heat up) and stuff like that... if you make the intercooler too big, it'll take a long time to fill it wtih air (electricity for the circuit).
it's not completely apples to apples but i hope that helps.
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From: Australia
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Tube and Fin is NOT the ideal structure for cooling, bar and plate is. Hence why 99% of the aftermarket IC mfg. use it.
Not even close to 99% of the aftermarket use B/P.
The main reason people use B/P is it is far easier to get in a variety of dimensions for a small order quantity. The other reasons are that they don't know what they are talking about, or they don't know who makes good T/F cores.
i'm going to say that soon2 is partially correct in that for the ultimate cooling bar/plate is always the ultimate because there is more heat sink mass. the more time you can soak the cooler with heat the more heat it will soak up. with less mass you will encounter a low equilibrium of transfer which will yield a low maximum heat evacuation limit. with more sink... you get a raised limit. tube fin is fantastic for being light however, and this is priceless to some.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Australia
Originally Posted by trinydex
i'm going to say that soon2 is partially correct in that for the ultimate cooling bar/plate is always the ultimate because there is more heat sink mass. the more time you can soak the cooler with heat the more heat it will soak up. with less mass you will encounter a low equilibrium of transfer which will yield a low maximum heat evacuation limit. with more sink... you get a raised limit. tube fin is fantastic for being light however, and this is priceless to some.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by trinydex
i'm going to say that soon2 is partially correct in that for the ultimate cooling bar/plate is always the ultimate because there is more heat sink mass. the more time you can soak the cooler with heat the more heat it will soak up. with less mass you will encounter a low equilibrium of transfer which will yield a low maximum heat evacuation limit. with more sink... you get a raised limit. tube fin is fantastic for being light however, and this is priceless to some.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
most of the time people assume bar and plate construction when in fact many coolers aren't.
For a "STREET APPLICATION" or "DAILY DRIVER" BP cores will hold and maintain OUTLET TEMPS with more CONSISTENCY waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than a TF. Remember a I/C's worst enemy is heatsoak and when you drive your Evo hard and end up at that red light... lets just say your not doing your I/C any favors.
If you want to see one way of viewing this then check out this link. Although, it's not the right way of testing since the dyno is not providing the "true" conditions for the FMIC to function properly. But, lets just say this is a more extreme way of testing since the FMIC will ALWAYS heatsoak faster on a dyno than on the street.
http://www.socalevo.net/forums/viewt...c5d431b180a729
Oh btw what this test shows is how the stock TF core was not able to go 5 back to back passes without heatsoaking Or just show how fast heatsoak can take place (and dyno testing is usually just 1 gear!). Just look at how much WHP you LOSE between EACH PASS!!!
Last edited by Str8Ryda; Aug 8, 2005 at 08:55 AM.
stock intercooler is fine,unless you have an aftermarket turbo. I have a Turbo xs intercooler, Its good quality and not that expensive. I had a fender bender and my stock intercooler was damaged, instead of paying 700 and change for a stock one. I bought the turbo xs intercooler for 650.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by dome2dome
the stock can handle 400 hp. (evo7)
http://www.socalevo.net/forums/viewt...db407085ea8903
The first 5 passes are the stock FMIC.
Originally Posted by trinydex
the hks intercooler is a piece of trash. i'll tell you why. it's an intercooler built on bandaids. first they want a high flowing core, so they make the intercooler extruded tube design like the greddy vspec. then they find out that doens't cool for crap... so they then add some other tubes that have fins in them. then they want it to be kinda light, so they don't add too many fins. half of it is letting air through and the other half is restrictive flow so air can be cooled. this is so stupid. just take the time to put square fins in... and you don't have that problem.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
Last edited by fury656; Aug 8, 2005 at 09:34 AM.
Hey check out the Perrin or the Turboxs FMIC. Both offer great fitment, and most of all exceptional performance. Shoot us a PM with your email and we can send you all the info we have on these intercoolers, as well as pricing for each of them.
Steve
GnV Motorsports
Steve
GnV Motorsports
Originally Posted by HYPERTUNE
Not true. Cooling is governed by the charge side and ambient side fins. It is possible to use identical fin configurations regardless of the construction type (tube/fin, bar/plate) therefore giving identical cooling capacity. If anything, cooling with the tube/fin core may be superior due to the round tube leading edges allowing ambient air to flow more easily through the core.
Not even close to 99% of the aftermarket use B/P.
The main reason people use B/P is it is far easier to get in a variety of dimensions for a small order quantity. The other reasons are that they don't know what they are talking about, or they don't know who makes good T/F cores.
Not even close to 99% of the aftermarket use B/P.
The main reason people use B/P is it is far easier to get in a variety of dimensions for a small order quantity. The other reasons are that they don't know what they are talking about, or they don't know who makes good T/F cores.
read this if you want https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...bar+plate+fmic
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by fury656
I have the Greddy V-Spl on my ............car, fit perfectly no cutting required, far more durable and actually helped with spool up/boost stability. My ............car is on the Stock turbo with basic boltons. Doing mutiple 2-4 pulls (10+) I've seen zero issues or noticeable losses in power. I could be wrong but in theory if the intercooler itself is less restrictive and the core is wider/taller across therefore the compressor itself is doing less work while pressurizing a much larger core so the cooling effects should be about equal over a more restrictive better cooling core.
A less restrictive core does not make it a better FMIC temps play a big roll in defining a good FMIC. Remember the job of a FMIC is to (in a perfect world) extract as much heat out of the charged air while creating as little resistance as possible.
As for size - I agree with you a wider / taller core (in most cases) will have less restrictions.
BTW - Did you get to see the testing done on the Greddy V-Spec? It's been done and the numbers have been posted.
Originally Posted by myevostore.com
Ok everyone,
We tested the Nisei core out last night and were suprised with the results. We went head to head with the GReddy V-spec Intercooler by testing both cores out on the same c...ar with probes drilled in to the end tanks of each core. The a...mbient temp was 53 degrees F so we were thinking it was a bad time to really show how good the Nisei core is since the GReddy wouldn't have to w...ork as hard to stay cool due to the low a...mbient temp. The Nisei core still managed to cool consistently 20 - 25 degrees more than the GReddy. Imagine what the results would be at 90 degrees a...mbient! We're thinking we would be looking at 50 - 80 degree difference in both cores. When looking at the GReddy core, you can see how bad of a design it really is. If you can hold up the core to the light and see through it then that's bad. The Nisei core has no light penetration while the greddy I could look down and even see my shoe with it. I have pictures of everything we're going to publish on the website. So, to sum up the test here's the 3 runs we did:
A...mbient temp: 53F
Speed: 4th gear WOT pull to 110MPH at redline (that's why we test at 3 am...no other traffic in sight on the freeway)
GReddy V-spec:
Run 1:
Inlet temp - 193
Outlet temp - 78
Run 2:
Inlet temp - 210
Outlet temp - 84
Run 3:
Inlet temp - 204
Outlet temp - 84
Nisei Engineering Core:
Run 1:
Inlet temp - 201
Outlet temp - 66
Run 2:
Inlet temp - 210
Outlet temp - 62
Run 3:
Aborted because we started seeing traffic (approx 4:30 AM people heading to w...ork)
We're anxious to run more tests in hotter weather. We have numbers from march of last year I posted previously. We're going to be testing some other competitors cores in the next coming weeks.
Ok, for the question everyone wanted answered: When will the intercooler be available? Now! We have 3 intercoolers done and ready to ship and 60 more end tanks getting polished. I will be adding the intercooler to myevostore.com today and i'll reply with the link.
Thanks everyone for your time!
Rob
We tested the Nisei core out last night and were suprised with the results. We went head to head with the GReddy V-spec Intercooler by testing both cores out on the same c...ar with probes drilled in to the end tanks of each core. The a...mbient temp was 53 degrees F so we were thinking it was a bad time to really show how good the Nisei core is since the GReddy wouldn't have to w...ork as hard to stay cool due to the low a...mbient temp. The Nisei core still managed to cool consistently 20 - 25 degrees more than the GReddy. Imagine what the results would be at 90 degrees a...mbient! We're thinking we would be looking at 50 - 80 degree difference in both cores. When looking at the GReddy core, you can see how bad of a design it really is. If you can hold up the core to the light and see through it then that's bad. The Nisei core has no light penetration while the greddy I could look down and even see my shoe with it. I have pictures of everything we're going to publish on the website. So, to sum up the test here's the 3 runs we did:
A...mbient temp: 53F
Speed: 4th gear WOT pull to 110MPH at redline (that's why we test at 3 am...no other traffic in sight on the freeway)
GReddy V-spec:
Run 1:
Inlet temp - 193
Outlet temp - 78
Run 2:
Inlet temp - 210
Outlet temp - 84
Run 3:
Inlet temp - 204
Outlet temp - 84
Nisei Engineering Core:
Run 1:
Inlet temp - 201
Outlet temp - 66
Run 2:
Inlet temp - 210
Outlet temp - 62
Run 3:
Aborted because we started seeing traffic (approx 4:30 AM people heading to w...ork)
We're anxious to run more tests in hotter weather. We have numbers from march of last year I posted previously. We're going to be testing some other competitors cores in the next coming weeks.
Ok, for the question everyone wanted answered: When will the intercooler be available? Now! We have 3 intercoolers done and ready to ship and 60 more end tanks getting polished. I will be adding the intercooler to myevostore.com today and i'll reply with the link.
Thanks everyone for your time!
Rob