To be clearer I definitely agree with the obvious fact that level of restriction is not the only factor in determining an IC's efficiency however due to the wider/taller/thicker core I think the Greddy's core itself necessarily ineffective in cooling with its benefits coming in tandem with its unrestrictive design.

My argument is that in a sense for this type of application the core itself while possibly not as effective a cooler as a standalone as some of the others around works in this application as you're dealing with a compressor spinning at over 15,000rpm so any decrease in restriction/increase in compressor effeciency at the same pressure point will give you an equalizing effect/gain.

As for the testing prior to the release of the Nisei core, I can't comment either way as this was done in relation to a new product introduction and can only speak from my own observations.

 

Fury656,

If you are saying that with less restriction in the core you will get better efficiency from the turbochargers "compressor wheel". Then I will agree to that.

But, if you are saying nothing changes except the FMIC and because of the "new/better efficiency" of the turbo's compressor wheel (due to the lower backpressure in a FMIC) will have equal benefits from a cooling stand point as an upgraded BP core that (IF) started with better cooling properties. Then I will have to disagree.

I will say, what you are saying is possible but, for the most part not likely unless the BP core were to have some serious issues with pressure drop / back pressure or a turbo that can overwhelm the flow of the FMIC (which applies to all FMIC's).

FN : Most turbochargers when balanced as a rotating assembly / CHRA's are balanced at speeds of 35,000 - 50,000 RPM which is much lower than actual RPM produced on the v...ehicle. The balancing speeds are limited by equipment/facility.

 

I am saying that the performance of the core is governed by the fin configuration.
Also, that B/P cores are more easily available in a range of sizes.

For example, to make a different thickness B/P core, all you have to do is cut the side bars and parting sheet to a different size, and run a different width fin stock through your fin mill for the ambient fins, and change the cutoff for the charge fins.

With a T/F core, you make the same changes with the fins, but a new welded tube has to be sourced (unless you have in house tube rolling/welding) and a new punch has to be made for the header plates.

To have a custom sized tube made by a leading manufacturer (as an example, last year I got a quote for 85mmx9mmx.5mm laser welded tube 3003 H14 core with 4004 cladding) tooling costs alone was 15000 euro, with the minimum order quantity being 5000kg.
If you think you know better, or think I don't know what I am talking about, call ARUP http://www.arup.de/ and find out for yourself. (You had better learn more about heat exchanger design before you do though, otherwise they will probably hang up on you!!)

Please note, that when I talk about T/F cores, I am not considering the extruded tube style like V-SPL, PWR, and some of the really disgusting made in China crap.
Although this type of IC core has some advantages (obviously the biggest being ease of manufacture) it is not something that you could directly compare to a typical B/P core.

There is more to heat exchanger design than just the fin config, (as far as it relates to our air/air performance application) and that is the effect on pressure drop across the charge side of the core, and the ambient side of the core effected by the tube entry geometry. Fin config has by far the biggest effect on pressure drop, but some gains can be had by improving the shape of the tube entry. This is why T/F cores tend to allow air to pass more easily through to the radiator.
Also, the unique design of ARC T/F cores (Abbey Road Company in Japan) make them arguably the best core design available.

You seem to think that I am attacking the performance of BP cores, or trying to discredit companies who use BP cores. This is definately not the case (I use a BP core on my own car, but if I could get the fin configuration and dimensions I want in a TF core, I would use it instead to save some weight)

What I am attempting to do is inform you guys of the real factors that govern IC core performance so you can make a truly informed decision and have a better understanding.

 

+ 1

 

I agree with him 2 of my friends installed greddy they are actually lossing the power...

 

AMS all the way

 

tell me more about the arc proprietary designs... i'm thoroughly interested.

 

i love my hks, its soooo big hahaha

 

Well, they have their own design T/F core, that is very light weight and incorporates a ram tube shape on the inlet side of the core. They have a few different models with slight variations in fin spec and tube dimensions, etc.

http://www.arcinter.co.jp/

They also make heaps of other cool stuff, but it is expensive.

 

ahh that's right i've seen this... i see what you mean by the ram tube... fantastic design.

 

http://www.niseiengineering.com/products.html

 

I have the Turbo XS great performance, big improvement over stock.

 

I was asking the same question a few months ago. Decided to go with AMS, I was between AMS, Buschur and Nisei, only Buschur and AMS have a good reputation, no one has really done a good tests on a Nisei, and its is the new kid on the block, I prefer to use parts that the professionals use and dont want to be a beta tester for a company that uses fancy animations to sell their products. After I installed the AMS I gained 27whp, personally I think thats amazing.

I dont agree with people that say you dont need a intercooler upgrade with stock turbo, in a hot weather like Puerto Rico it makes a huge difference, the stock unit is not very efficient in a weather like this and we see huge gains when upgrading, I have a friend that installed his fmic as his first mod, and it really works.

In our weather a fmic upgrade is a must, and in other weathers I am sure you will still see gains.

 

Stock Turbo - Stock IC?? Unless there's pleanty of $$$$

 

All of us in heat laden environments will benefit from an upgraded intercooler on the OE turbo. There are just too many kids running around regurgitating what they have "heard" preaching it as internet "fact".