best front mount intercooler?
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
BBYBruno,
Please, if you are going to type something atleast type the truth. The Nisei is NOT the only company that did testing. The only "testing" they did was compare physical sizes and core make up. That is not a "test" it is simply taking measurements and making statements that they believe to be true about what is best.
Testing is measuring pressure drop and tempurature increases in a controlled environment on each and every intercooler vs. others.
Bring by your Nisei intercooler and I will dyno your car same day on our dyno with our FMIC and show you how to put an end to this nonsense.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Please, if you are going to type something atleast type the truth. The Nisei is NOT the only company that did testing. The only "testing" they did was compare physical sizes and core make up. That is not a "test" it is simply taking measurements and making statements that they believe to be true about what is best.
Testing is measuring pressure drop and tempurature increases in a controlled environment on each and every intercooler vs. others.
Bring by your Nisei intercooler and I will dyno your car same day on our dyno with our FMIC and show you how to put an end to this nonsense.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
If testing an intercooler consists of measuring pressure drop and temperature changes. Wouldn't testing on a dyno be inaccurate because the air speed is NOT ACTUAL wind speed? Doesn't air being blown by a fan have limitations? Wouldn't testing on track and taking these readings be more accurate? Maybe BBY is not refferring to testing by Nisei but, testing conducted by other members?
Here is a link I've researched:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=50
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Originally Posted by trinydex
the hks intercooler is a piece of trash. i'll tell you why. it's an intercooler built on bandaids. first they want a high flowing core, so they make the intercooler extruded tube design like the greddy vspec. then they find out that doens't cool for crap... so they then add some other tubes that have fins in them. then they want it to be kinda light, so they don't add too many fins. half of it is letting air through and the other half is restrictive flow so air can be cooled. this is so stupid. just take the time to put square fins in... and you don't have that problem.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
if you want to decrease the resistance you can make the resistor fatter, this is the equivalent to adding more tubes in the intercooler, more channels for air to go down, less resistance more flow, less voltage drop.
now if you make the resistor too big then it will take a while for it to reach it's opperating capacity (heat up) and stuff like that... if you make the intercooler too big, it'll take a long time to fill it wtih air (electricity for the circuit).
it's not completely apples to apples but i hope that helps.
now to discuss flow, flow can mean a pipe... a pipe flows a lot. but it cools little. a stock intercooler cools ok... but is pretty restrictive too cuz it does cool ok. so picture this, i'll explain it as electronics. say you have a series circuit with a resistor, if you make the resistor longer the resistance will increase this is like making the intercooler tubes longer, more restriction, more cooling, more voltage drop more pressure drop.
if you want to decrease the resistance you can make the resistor fatter, this is the equivalent to adding more tubes in the intercooler, more channels for air to go down, less resistance more flow, less voltage drop.
now if you make the resistor too big then it will take a while for it to reach it's opperating capacity (heat up) and stuff like that... if you make the intercooler too big, it'll take a long time to fill it wtih air (electricity for the circuit).
it's not completely apples to apples but i hope that helps.
I would use only the best and proven SH#$ that works , I Just put the BUSCHUR standered FMIC , Fits like a glove . The car feels great. No problem at all .
It has more than enough room too the crash beam ,
Thanks david For the nice FMIC , Keep up the good work
Originally Posted by cleanevo
I would use only the best and proven SH#$ that works , I Just put the BUSCHUR standered FMIC , Fits like a glove . The car feels great. No problem at all .
It has more than enough room too the crash beam ,
Thanks david For the nice FMIC , Keep up the good work
Originally Posted by cleanevo
how did it not fit and alum. dosnt rust it gets oxidized but like anything cleaning it will help .
spoke to david a while ago and he said it wasnt his problem...
in all.. hp gains were great but fitment sucks.. me and a few had similar problems so my ic was not an isolated case
ill post pics when i install my new fmic in
Last edited by Rollaway; Aug 27, 2005 at 05:37 PM.
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From: World's largest Archipelago
Originally Posted by cleanevo
I would use only the best and proven SH#$ that works , I Just put the BUSCHUR standered FMIC , Fits like a glove . The car feels great. No problem at all .
Thanks david For the nice FMIC , Keep up the good work
Thanks david For the nice FMIC , Keep up the good work
Looking forward to their full piping kit
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9
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Dynos are a tuning tool, nothing more and should not be compared. The real proving ground is the race track. The BR intercooler has gone 141 mph in the quarter and is installed on many other high horsepower track proven cars. End of story..... Tell me...What fast cars is the nisei currently installed on?
Originally Posted by apoe117
Dynos are a tuning tool, nothing more and should not be compared. The real proving ground is the race track. The BR intercooler has gone 141 mph in the quarter and is installed on many other high horsepower track proven cars. End of story..... Tell me...What fast cars is the nisei currently installed on?
Sorry, pet peeve of an old man...
track, strip all the same. I go to the track, track being short for racetrack, a dragstrip is a racetrack.
rollaway, I would have for SURE never have told you that if your intercooler didn't fit it "wasn't my problem". You are for some reason further BS'ing here with a statement of, "A year later it is rusted". Aluminum doesn't rust.
As far as the comparison on the dyno. The dyno is convientent and the best place I can think of to do the testing. The track (yes track) isn't going to be as good, first off all you would have to do a track rental to get the time to actually do some fair testing, second you better get a very good driver that is consistent enough to keep the results the same. The ultimate test is going to be what the car does run, but trying to do back to back comparisons at the track is going to be extremely tough to do.
The dyno is a controlled environment. Each intercooler would have the same airflow, cool down times etc. You can measure temps, pressure drop and power gains.
As far as testing against ours, I will use whatever intercooler of our 3 I have to to beat Nisei's numbers, end of story. My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it. My other guess is as the intercooler is run again and again the power of the overly dense Nisei is going to keep on dropping off. Just a guess though.
BTW, basing expectations on track results wouldn't put the Nisei in 1st place, the fastests cars aren't running them.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
rollaway, I would have for SURE never have told you that if your intercooler didn't fit it "wasn't my problem". You are for some reason further BS'ing here with a statement of, "A year later it is rusted". Aluminum doesn't rust.
As far as the comparison on the dyno. The dyno is convientent and the best place I can think of to do the testing. The track (yes track) isn't going to be as good, first off all you would have to do a track rental to get the time to actually do some fair testing, second you better get a very good driver that is consistent enough to keep the results the same. The ultimate test is going to be what the car does run, but trying to do back to back comparisons at the track is going to be extremely tough to do.
The dyno is a controlled environment. Each intercooler would have the same airflow, cool down times etc. You can measure temps, pressure drop and power gains.
As far as testing against ours, I will use whatever intercooler of our 3 I have to to beat Nisei's numbers, end of story. My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it. My other guess is as the intercooler is run again and again the power of the overly dense Nisei is going to keep on dropping off. Just a guess though.
BTW, basing expectations on track results wouldn't put the Nisei in 1st place, the fastests cars aren't running them.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
track, strip all the same. I go to the track, track being short for racetrack, a dragstrip is a racetrack.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I'd guess a back to back temp and pressure drop across the core on a road course would be the most telling... Maybe I will get around to this someday. I believe several customers have done such tests on their intercoolers. It's just that no one has done the tests back to back with the different offerings. I'd agree with David in that the dense Nisei may not look good after baking it on a dyno for a while. However, under speed, I bet it will be a different story...
Don't forget people, I respect David's professional opinion and products, so this isn't a bash. He is top notch, but like any informed customer, I keep my options open. Matter of fact, if any of the "good" intercoolers had a significant price drop, I'd go for the best bang for the buck vs. who's product is "the SHlT".
lolol dave what are you taking about!! Your intercooler is more dense then the nisei's, wooow. And to get your facts straight nisei did do their own testing not just physical but pressure drop, temps, ect...And i really dont feel like driving all the way do your dyno for comparison. So go ahead and order one for $675 and test it your self if your so sure you intercooler performs that much better.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Into the Void
IDK, arn't they all the same as far as pump gas is concerned??
I mean the Buschur unit and the AMS and the RNR and I just bought the Turbo XS I mean how different can they be as long as they flow the proper volume and offer the Bar/Plate option and so on.....
I mean the Buschur unit and the AMS and the RNR and I just bought the Turbo XS I mean how different can they be as long as they flow the proper volume and offer the Bar/Plate option and so on.....
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
track, strip all the same. I go to the track, track being short for racetrack, a dragstrip is a racetrack.
rollaway, I would have for SURE never have told you that if your intercooler didn't fit it "wasn't my problem". You are for some reason further BS'ing here with a statement of, "A year later it is rusted". Aluminum doesn't rust.
As far as the comparison on the dyno. The dyno is convientent and the best place I can think of to do the testing. The track (yes track) isn't going to be as good, first off all you would have to do a track rental to get the time to actually do some fair testing, second you better get a very good driver that is consistent enough to keep the results the same. The ultimate test is going to be what the car does run, but trying to do back to back comparisons at the track is going to be extremely tough to do.
The dyno is a controlled environment. Each intercooler would have the same airflow, cool down times etc. You can measure temps, pressure drop and power gains.
As far as testing against ours, I will use whatever intercooler of our 3 I have to to beat Nisei's numbers, end of story. My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it. My other guess is as the intercooler is run again and again the power of the overly dense Nisei is going to keep on dropping off. Just a guess though.
BTW, basing expectations on track results wouldn't put the Nisei in 1st place, the fastests cars aren't running them.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
rollaway, I would have for SURE never have told you that if your intercooler didn't fit it "wasn't my problem". You are for some reason further BS'ing here with a statement of, "A year later it is rusted". Aluminum doesn't rust.
As far as the comparison on the dyno. The dyno is convientent and the best place I can think of to do the testing. The track (yes track) isn't going to be as good, first off all you would have to do a track rental to get the time to actually do some fair testing, second you better get a very good driver that is consistent enough to keep the results the same. The ultimate test is going to be what the car does run, but trying to do back to back comparisons at the track is going to be extremely tough to do.
The dyno is a controlled environment. Each intercooler would have the same airflow, cool down times etc. You can measure temps, pressure drop and power gains.
As far as testing against ours, I will use whatever intercooler of our 3 I have to to beat Nisei's numbers, end of story. My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it. My other guess is as the intercooler is run again and again the power of the overly dense Nisei is going to keep on dropping off. Just a guess though.
BTW, basing expectations on track results wouldn't put the Nisei in 1st place, the fastests cars aren't running them.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
A dyno is used to measure hp ratings. If an intercooler is a heat exchanger, how does a dyno measure the inet / oulet temperatures & pressure drop across the core? Another thing, by having limitations / restrictions / or "set conditions" on the air flowing to the intercooler, you are creating static air flow rates, which are far different from the ACTUAL air flow ratings, if compared to real testing conducted on the track / road.
It is very common for cars on the dyno to have speeds over 100 mph during pulls. I don't think your fan is even capable of producing air speeds equivalent to 80mph or simulate a car traveling at 80 mph. Unless your dyno is located in a wind tunnel, I believe your readings will be false.
You make some BOLD statements regarding testing against 1 of your many competitiors. Why not test against them ALL? Why just stop at the Nisei?
One thing I must question is your testing methods in regards to FMIC's, especially if the dyno is the "be all end all" answer to testing this particular performance upgrade for you.
I think testing should be accurate, especially when educating the community of your products. I don't think the words "guess" and "testing" should be in a same sentence. As one who provides products in exchange for $$$ (our $$$, us endusers) isn't it your responsiblity as a manufacturer to provide the best products? Even if it takes renting the track to conduct accurate tests, or even if it's not convenient to you? Isn't that why we pay you $$$? To provide you with the means so you can test and manufacture products for us?