Warrtalon, This is a very good question, since i've had a Utec (about 3 months) i've been trying to see what makes the most power....advance timing (11 degrees at peak Tq ramping to 20 at redline)+pulling fuel (1-2%)+22psi, with this setup i knock bad, then i tried running conservative timing(4-5 degrees at peak Tq ramping to 19 degrees)+Pulling fuel(1-2%)+ 21 PSI and the car didn't feel as fast. My current Set up which i like the Best.....Tunned when it was about 70 degrees outside. i run 22 psi+8 ramping to 21 degrees of timing and im adding 11 % fuel on top...car does not knock unless its real cold outside and it feels FAST.


With the stock IC the turbo isn't that much more efficient after 24psi. on Pump gas you wanna be able to run as much timing as possible while keeping the turbo at 20-22 psi. People runing 24-25 psi on pump are not runing that advance of timing and there blowing hot air so there loosing more power than anything. Its about finding the happy medium...

 

Yes, but what power are you making, and what are your traps speeds. We need empirical evidence, not subjective.

 

I dont even see how people are boosting 24-25 psi and making power on pump

 

Its in the tune. there are protections setup in the tune.
Running rich and conservative tunes. I've ran 2 bars for a long time now. and have done like 6 compression leakdown test. and nothing outta the normal. Only problem i wear sparkplugs out real fast.

now i had nick retune the car. it makes similar power but at a much lower boost. 1.6-1.7 bar.

stock turbos need to be above 20psi for nice power. Have the boost at 22psi it'll drop down alot before redline. having it high like 24psi it'll drop to like 20psi (hopefully).

Warrtalon, are you using the safc knock sensor? or a real one?

 

My dyno sheet is linked in my sig. I'm hoping to get some track times in this weekend but the car feels much faster than it ever has. The area below 5.5k is somewhat limp (and irrelevant at the strip) compared to EVOs with cams however from 6-7.5k I think the car has enough to pull me to a solid time.

 

I don't either, but that is the claim we're hearing. I am looking for evidence of this from both dynos and track results. You must admit, though, your research on your car is utilizing the butt dyno while Precision gets to test their theories on a real dyno. This makes a big difference. Plus, they are using a Mustang Dyno, so it's directly applicable to the street. Luckily, I've had the chance to prove my research at the track and on multiple dynos, so I know that I'm unable to run this much boost, but then again I don't have the ability to control timing directly. These guys do have this ability through the EcuTek, but does this method make more power more reliably?

 

Here is one of my older logs

3363, +1.0, 661,100, 10, 00, 12.0, 22.6, +5.5,-12.7,ECU. , 453
3572, +4.9, 838,100, 10, 00, 12.2, 31.8, +5.1,-14.1,ECU. , 644
3831, +8.1,1077,100, 10, 00, 12.1, 40.6, +5.3,-14.1,ECU. , 822
4089,+12.2,1362,100, 20, 00, 11.1, 50.7, +6.0,-17.8,ECU. ,1243
4363,+16.7,1291,100, 30, 00, 10.6, 47.3, +7.0,-23.2,ECU. ,1046
4734,+20.2,1315,100, 40, 00, 11.8, 54.2, +7.4,-23.1,ECU. ,1213
5042,+22.8,1436,100, 50, 00, 12.0, 55.9, +7.6,-24.0,ECU. ,1126
5376,+23.8,1592,100, 60, 00, 11.8, 61.4, +8.9,-24.6,ECU. ,1082
5688,+23.8,1677,100, 60, 00, 11.5, 62.9,+10.2,-25.7,ECU. ,1121
6006,+23.6,1760,100, 70, 00, 11.7, 67.4,+13.6,-26.8,ECU. ,1322
6313,+23.2,1798,100, 70, 00, 11.5, 66.3,+16.2,-27.6,ECU. ,1308
6626,+23.8,1865,100, 80, 00, 11.7, 67.8,+18.5,-28.9,ECU. ,1295
6915,+23.6,1901,100, 80, 00, 11.7, 68.6,+21.1,-29.3,ECU. ,1329
7153,+23.4,1923,100, 90, 00, 11.2, 73.3,+21.9,-29.0,ECU. ,1436

I think this was a 2nd gear pull. But 23psi and 21.9 degrees of timing, yes it can be done. Nez136 can vouch for the way my car runs.

 

Like i said that is an older log, my peak timing is just over 23 degrees. Thats not the best log since it doesn't go to redline, ill try to find a newer log

 

Im an interested to see results from these tuners as well, as a amature tuner i am almost POSITIVE that running less timing to hit 25 psi will make less power than runing a more efficient 21-22 psi with more advance timing

 

Bom's, I'm not using the SAFC knock sensor. I'm inferring based of the timing curve.
I see you are making the same power on 94 as I am making on a mix of 110/93. I assume you have cams...

Fury, yeah, I remember your dyno sheet now. You do have a WR, which doesn't quite fit into the equation here, but the boost/timing/tuning issue makes it relevant. From the looks of your curve, you will probably trap higher than stock turbo'd Evos who dyno the same whp as you, since all your power is up top, which is perfect for the drag strip. Your traps on pump gas will give a nice comparison for how those MD numbers compare to typical Dynojet numbers.

Dryad, that's impressive. I don't know how you manage such high timing with such high boost on pump gas. How are you getting boost to stay above 23 from 5000 all the way past 7000rpm on the stock turbo? What I've been hearing is that to run that much boost you must keep the timing less aggressive, but that's not what you're doing. It may be because of 2nd gear. I've been referring to 4th gear, since that is more than half the track when at the drag strip. 2nd gear is much less likely to incur knock...I don't ever experience any myself when the boost is up too high.

 

Timing is set pretty much the same thru all of the gears, I have the WR turbo and yes it holds boost very well im sure fury656 can chime in on this. I have found out that the more linear timing curve you have the less prone you are to knock or higher rpm misses. I have logged about 20 hours and have a few CD's to go through. Is my tuning safe? I think so. Can I go higher? Sure. Will I? maybe will see.

Once I get the maftpro working I will do a full 4th gear pull for you and post up the log. Gimme a week or so.

It's not all in the EM tuning either. I have played with the gain setting on my hks BC and found if I ramp up the turbo quite fast it seems to hold it there. I think my gain is set at 174%.

 

IIRC - I was running 23/24psi on the XEDE stage 1+

 

I found another log, not sure if this is 3rd or 4th, i think its 3rd.

2730, -6.2, 328,100, 10, 00, 11.7, 13.8,+10.0, -5.0,ECU. , 459
2815, -2.7, 380,100, 10, 00, 11.5, 13.9, +9.6, -5.3,ECU. , 353
2822, +1.2, 423,100, 10, 00, 11.4, 15.7, +9.3, -6.1,ECU. , 314
2871, +2.4, 460,100, 10, 00, 11.5, 17.7, +9.0, -6.8,ECU. , 347
2955, +3.6, 537,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 20.5, +7.9, -7.5,ECU. , 611
3046, +5.3, 580,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 22.3, +6.9, -8.8,ECU. , 541
3138, +6.7, 676,100, 10, 00, 11.7, 23.3, +6.1, -9.5,ECU. , 679
3284, +8.7, 776,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 31.1, +5.1,-10.9,ECU. , 710
3394,+10.8, 888,100, 10, 00, 11.1, 35.2, +5.0,-12.1,ECU. , 737
3534,+13.4,1048,100, 20, 00, 10.8, 42.0, +4.8,-13.7,ECU. , 741
3695,+16.7,1152,100, 30, 00, 10.8, 47.8, +4.9,-16.7,ECU. , 654
3853,+19.8,1113,100, 30, 00, 10.7, 44.9, +5.3,-19.0,ECU. , 776
3977,+22.6,1154,100, 40, 00, 11.0, 46.6, +5.7,-20.9,ECU. ,1041
4166,+23.4,1272,100, 40, 00, 11.4, 47.8, +6.1,-22.1,ECU. , 980
4368,+23.5,1219,100, 40, 00, 11.5, 49.1, +6.7,-22.5,ECU. ,1072
4504,+23.3,1385,100, 40, 00, 11.6, 48.4, +7.3,-22.8,ECU. , 996
4668,+23.1,1344,100, 50, 00, 11.7, 50.8, +7.3,-22.8,ECU. ,1131
4880,+23.9,1377,100, 50, 00, 11.6, 52.5, +7.4,-23.2,ECU. ,1162
5020,+24.2,1543,100, 50, 00, 11.5, 58.3, +7.5,-24.0,ECU. ,1126
5192,+24.2,1488,100, 60, 00, 11.3, 59.3, +7.7,-23.4,ECU. ,1250
5341,+24.2,1644,100, 60, 00, 11.3, 60.2, +8.4,-24.1,ECU. ,1282
5546,+23.8,1628,100, 60, 00, 11.1, 58.3, +9.6,-25.1,ECU. ,1146
5698,+23.8,1650,100, 70, 00, 11.3, 65.1,+10.2,-26.9,ECU. ,1336
5889,+23.6,1742,100, 70, 00, 11.3, 67.7,+12.0,-27.0,ECU. ,1237
6027,+23.4,1779,100, 70, 00, 11.2, 66.3,+13.8,-27.0,ECU. ,1173
6172,+23.2,1792,100, 70, 00, 11.1, 65.9,+15.2,-27.5,ECU. ,1366
6361,+23.2,1811,100, 70, 00, 11.1, 69.6,+16.3,-27.8,ECU. ,1336
6510,+23.0,1845,100, 80, 00, 11.0, 68.0,+17.1,-28.5,ECU. ,1373
6693,+23.0,1851,100, 80, 00, 11.1, 69.6,+19.1,-29.1,ECU. ,1366
6788,+23.2,1886,100, 80, 00, 11.2, 69.8,+20.6,-29.5,ECU. ,1315
6944,+23.0,1923,100, 80, 00, 11.1, 69.8,+21.3,-29.2,ECU. ,1436
7092,+23.0,1901,100, 80, 00, 10.6, 73.1,+21.9,-29.2,ECU. ,1396
7246,+22.8,1908,100, 80, 00, 10.7, 72.3,+22.3,-28.7,ECU. ,1453
7342,+22.8,1923,100, 80, 00, 10.7, 73.3,+22.4,-29.0,ECU. ,1461
7490,+23.0,1968,100, 80, 00, 10.6, 75.9,+22.4,-28.6,ECU. ,1436

Notice how the timing has been bumped up becuse this is more of a complete pull, this is right before redline.

 

The WR hits boost harder and holds almost too well, later found that my Forge valve with the spring rated to 23psi (for the stock turbo atleast) wasnt holding shut and boost still rose toward redline.

I honestly feel this car has a shot at hitting 110mph through the traps with the winter air. I will say its still a scare watching the boost gauge hang up there and stick to 7500rpm. On Nick's recommendation I went a step colder to the BR8ES and found that the car runs even smoother across at this boost level. I also have a finely calibrated butt dyno and I usually verify over numerous pulls (2nd to 4th).

 

Look at the 3rd column that is the maf hz, they bounce around all over the place, hopefully with the maftpro this wont happen.