What's wrong with comparing? I don't see how else to figure this out without comparisons, and considering several people have said, "this thread has been very useful," I will continue without your permission. More responses than not have verified the use of higher boost on pump gas with proper tuning as far as their own logging goes, but I haven't yet to see any track results to verify that more power is being made.

Also, I still have yet to see any results from the cars you have tuned other than the one with the AEM EMS, which doesn't paint a good picture. I was hoping for some of these other "powerful" cars to provide some empirical evidence to support this notion of running higher boost on pump gas as being a superior method...

 

You don't know that until you see both cars on that same dyno on the same day. Evo's aren't the most consistent cars at the track, so MPH can vary with the same car, same, day, same launch and same shifts. Different tracks, like dynos will trap differently with the same car, on the same day.

Trap speeds on an evo can be very confusing and higher trap speeds ALWAYS come with worse driving/launches. Seeing as your buddy is a "bad driver", he is probably seeing extra MPH from that. Cut a nasty launch and powershift and his MPH WILL drop

Although this is a good topic, it has countless variables, and all comes down to tuning. Tuning isn't something that can be read and learned in a thread. Its something that is taught (first hand being best) and comes also with experience...

I'd reccomend anyone wanting to know more to check out "efi101.com". Ben Strader is the man

 

One thing that should be noted in this thread is that timing values from one EMS to another will vary.

 

MPH will go up with a bad driver in a 2WD car if they get a lot of tire spin off the line, BUT, in an AWD turbo car, a bog launch (a typical "bad driver" move) will cost ET and MPH. And bad driving down the track (i.e., shifting at the wrong RPM or shifting slowly) always cost MPH too.

 

This is DEFINITELY not true. Maybe on other cars, but not with the Evo. Spinning on the line CAN result in higher traps speeds than a perfect launch, but what you said is not true. There are people who don't know how to launch and end up with TERRIBLE trap speeds in their Evos. When they learn to actually launch somewhat decently, their MPH iproves dramatically. The phenomenon you are talking about is when comparing a spinning 1.75 60' vs a non-bogging/non-spinning perfect 1.65 60'. The 1.75 will end up with a slower ET, but likely a higher MPH while the 1.65 60' will have a much better ET but with a slightly lower MPH, since the car has had less time to accelerate. Even so, the difference is minimal.

Using my car as an example, on a 1.92 60', I hit 112.4 after spinning all the way through first and chirping 2nd. I then hit a 1.85 60' while spinning but not quite as bad, but trapped 112.6. I then got a 1.75 60' without spinning or bogging and trapped 113.2. Instead of wasting my time spinning, I was accelerating the entire time, so you definitely can't say that my buddy's "bad driving" is giving extra mph. His 60' on this was a 1.86 or so. If he cuts a 1.6 or 1.7, he's still going to be right around 113-114mph.

Whether I hit a 12.0 or 12.4, my highest trap speed is 113.2. I think it's safe to say the car trapping 113.9 with lesser driving is making more power. Likewise, a car that has run 12.2 at 112-113 at multiple tracks is making no more power than I am and probably less than my buddy. I have also run at the same track as this EVO-NY car (E-town) and hit the same type of times I hit locally, so that part of the comparison is valid, too.

 

At the risk of muddying the water here a little bit (and keeping things on-topic ), I took a look at my logs from last night. Unfortunately I logged only 2 runs from the emanage (I use a pocketlogger for timing) and one of the logs has bad data in it (it does that sometimes...) and the other I hit boost cut in. The pull with boost cut in the middle went from 2895rpm to 7400rpm, peaked at 23psi and fell to 19.5psi, and had an a/f of 12:1 dropping smoothly to 10.8:1 at 7400. Timing peaked at 20*. The car feels much smoother up top now (not necessarily more powerful - yet) and I did drop the boost some before making that pull, since I had hit boost cut a couple of times an hour earlier. I will keep logging and tweaking though.

 

This thread is really nothing more then an attempt by Warrtalon to get a tuner to provide him an education in tuning, which one thread is not going to do it.
I have no problem with anyone tuning thier own car but if you chose to do so then maybe you should seek out an education like EFI university instead of just jumping in every tuners thread on this board trying to get the same quality information you could obtain on your own if you chose to.

It's funny someone mentioned Ben Strader in this thread because while I was in Vegas this week I was introduced to Ben Strader by Nick from Precision Dyno.

 

Warrtalon do you tune timing

 

Like I mentioned earlier, the info (not all of it though) is in this thread already if you can read between the lines. I was literally about to give up on the emanage until I read this thread and put 2 and 2 together so to speak. I now am tuning like mad and making plans to upgrade to the emanage Ultimate, so I can ditch the MAF.

 

No, not directly. Only indirectly...

 

Actually, since I started the thread, I can deny this. I didn't start in order to get educated on how to tune. I started it to find out if 23psi is really considered conservative for pump gas. I have never heard this from anyone and have never seen that as a norm for any tuner, and I have STILL yet to see any proven results of someone trying to run 23-24psi on pump gas with the stock turbo. I run 21psi and hit 12.4-12.5s on pump gas without cams. With race gas, I run 24psi (which is apparently OK for pump gas with "proper" tuning) and go 12.0s. Now, if running 24psi only requires proper tuning, then would it not make sense that these cars tuned to such a degree can keep up with my car on 24psi? This is definitely not the case, though. I haven't even seen cars with this type of tune beat my meager 21psi pump gas tuning that is considered inferior. I'm still waiting...