The not-so-offical EVO 9 ECU tuning thread
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The not-so-offical EVO 9 ECU tuning thread
Quick update: We've spent the last god-knows-how-many hours making sense of the EVO 9 ECU. Unlike the EVO 8 ECU which has 2 timing and 2 fuel maps and runs on 1 pair until things get really ugly (which pretty much never as long as the ECU is tuned half-way decently), the EVO 9 ECU has 6 timing maps and 2 fuel maps. Now here's the neat/annoying/frustrating/cool part:
The car actively runs on at least 3 of the timing maps, all the time, constantly swapping back and forth between them as the car is driven under different load and knock conditions. The other 3 ignition maps are simply low octane maps that are only induced when detonation gets really nasty (I can only presume so since we prefer to keep that untested
). Those have little relevance in a decently tuned car running the appropriate fuel. So lets ignore them for now.
Now back to the three normal timing maps. It appears that they behave like 1st and 2nd lines of defenses when very mild to moderate detonation occurs. Instead of having a knock retard system jump in and jump out as the do in most applications, when minor knock occurs, the ECU defaults to the least aggressive map immediately until the knock subsides. Then it slowly "floats" up the intermediate map (somewhat aggressive) and hangs out there until a few interesting requirements are met. Once met, then and only then with the ECU run the regular aggressive ignition map that we all know and love. This process can take seconds or minutes depending on how the tables and conditions are configured. The advantage of relying on standard look-up tables instead of relying on an active knock control feedback system is speed and stability (I'm glad we released SMART several months ago or we'd be accused of copying the EVO 9 ECU )
These 6 timing maps aren't descriptively labeled. Nor are there any help documents which tell you how exactly they work with one another. Figuring this out meant setting all the timing maps equal to each other and making one small change at a time, in each and every map, over and over and over again until some meaningful trend was observed. Think of all the different permutations possible when trying to isolate the individual functionalities of 6 tables that all work together! All while keeping testing conditions stable enough so that random coolant temp, air intake temp, accel enrichment and other misc. compensations/enrichments/enleanments/etc,. don't screw with the loggged data. This took 2 tanks of gas and over 300 runs on the dyno and we're still in the process of figuring it out completely
The bad news is that this new ECU type is as complicated as just about anything we've seen before. If you approach it like an EVO 8 ECU and just start reworking the high det timing and fuel maps with no consideration on how they intermingle with each other, the results are going to be freighteningly unstable. If you set all the low and high det maps equal to each other (you'd be surprised how many people do this in order to achieve the raw # gains), you lose all the dynamic adaptability that
engineered into the ECU. I guess the engineers thought this adaptability is necessary on a 2.0L that is designed to make ~320bhp in stock form on 91oct gas (yeah, it's really that under-rated).
The good news is that the result so far have been ridiculously good. At this stage of remapping, the otherwise stock EVO 9 test car is making nearly as much as power as an EVO 8 running a full turbo-back exhaust and camshafts. And we haven't even got into the MIVEC tables yet!
More to come as it unravels...
Cheers,
Shiv
The car actively runs on at least 3 of the timing maps, all the time, constantly swapping back and forth between them as the car is driven under different load and knock conditions. The other 3 ignition maps are simply low octane maps that are only induced when detonation gets really nasty (I can only presume so since we prefer to keep that untested
). Those have little relevance in a decently tuned car running the appropriate fuel. So lets ignore them for now.Now back to the three normal timing maps. It appears that they behave like 1st and 2nd lines of defenses when very mild to moderate detonation occurs. Instead of having a knock retard system jump in and jump out as the do in most applications, when minor knock occurs, the ECU defaults to the least aggressive map immediately until the knock subsides. Then it slowly "floats" up the intermediate map (somewhat aggressive) and hangs out there until a few interesting requirements are met. Once met, then and only then with the ECU run the regular aggressive ignition map that we all know and love. This process can take seconds or minutes depending on how the tables and conditions are configured. The advantage of relying on standard look-up tables instead of relying on an active knock control feedback system is speed and stability (I'm glad we released SMART several months ago or we'd be accused of copying the EVO 9 ECU
)These 6 timing maps aren't descriptively labeled. Nor are there any help documents which tell you how exactly they work with one another. Figuring this out meant setting all the timing maps equal to each other and making one small change at a time, in each and every map, over and over and over again until some meaningful trend was observed. Think of all the different permutations possible when trying to isolate the individual functionalities of 6 tables that all work together! All while keeping testing conditions stable enough so that random coolant temp, air intake temp, accel enrichment and other misc. compensations/enrichments/enleanments/etc,. don't screw with the loggged data. This took 2 tanks of gas and over 300 runs on the dyno and we're still in the process of figuring it out completely
The bad news is that this new ECU type is as complicated as just about anything we've seen before. If you approach it like an EVO 8 ECU and just start reworking the high det timing and fuel maps with no consideration on how they intermingle with each other, the results are going to be freighteningly unstable. If you set all the low and high det maps equal to each other (you'd be surprised how many people do this in order to achieve the raw # gains), you lose all the dynamic adaptability that
engineered into the ECU. I guess the engineers thought this adaptability is necessary on a 2.0L that is designed to make ~320bhp in stock form on 91oct gas (yeah, it's really that under-rated).The good news is that the result so far have been ridiculously good. At this stage of remapping, the otherwise stock EVO 9 test car is making nearly as much as power as an EVO 8 running a full turbo-back exhaust and camshafts. And we haven't even got into the MIVEC tables yet!
More to come as it unravels...
Cheers,
Shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Nov 19, 2005 at 07:04 PM.
For all the guys at Vishnu !
Shiv,
What software are you using to dig into the maps? Tectom? Ecutek? Just wondering. Great job, BTW. Also, Alfred dynoed a BONE stock Evo 9 today and it made 270.7whp and around 265wtq on their Dynojet today in pretty hot conditions.That is around 30 to 40whp more than a stock '03 makes on their dyno.
See ya Monday,
Smoggy
What software are you using to dig into the maps? Tectom? Ecutek? Just wondering. Great job, BTW. Also, Alfred dynoed a BONE stock Evo 9 today and it made 270.7whp and around 265wtq on their Dynojet today in pretty hot conditions.That is around 30 to 40whp more than a stock '03 makes on their dyno.
See ya Monday,
Smoggy
I want my money back too!
Skiracer is referring to a gentleman's bet concerning HIS Evo 9's stock horsepower. The ten of us at the shop all threw in a buck and wrote down our predictions for WHP. I had originally guessed 270 (dead on perfect) but revised it slightly to 268 and ended up losing the pot of cash to Aaron (TT mechanic) by .3 whp. He guessed 273.
Sorry about the highjack Shiv, but what do you expect from us SoCal yahoos?
At least it sends your post "ttt"
Skiracer is referring to a gentleman's bet concerning HIS Evo 9's stock horsepower. The ten of us at the shop all threw in a buck and wrote down our predictions for WHP. I had originally guessed 270 (dead on perfect) but revised it slightly to 268 and ended up losing the pot of cash to Aaron (TT mechanic) by .3 whp. He guessed 273.
Sorry about the highjack Shiv, but what do you expect from us SoCal yahoos?
At least it sends your post "ttt"
Last edited by Smogrunner; Nov 19, 2005 at 07:53 PM.
wow I am wondering if the evos will become as interchangeable as hondas..for example evo 9 head on evo 8 block and evo 9 ecu in evo 8 to control the evo 9 cam setup...Someone hurry and take their evo 9 apart to see if it will bolt up
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Hi guys,
I'm still at the dyno shop working on the 9. Time for another breather. So much for my saturday night More info:
The MIVEC mapping on the stock car is interesting. It is one fat compromise. From the way the stock table looks, it tries to maximize partial throttle torque at low to mid RPM while still trying to skirt around the load/rpm points acheived during the EPA drive cycle test. This makes the power delivery between low to low/mid throttle a little jerky. I noticed this on the road from the minute I drove the car but know it makes a bit more sense. I think I've managed to smoothen the MIVEC map out a bit. Wont know for sure until I take it out on the road.
Boost control: There are multiple tables devoted to boost control. There are several boost target tables (MAF targets), several duty cycle tables, another table which dictates the close loop feedback system, and so on. Pretty neat stuff. The only problem being that I don't yet have access to moving around RPM breakpoints. Currently, they are set ever 500rpm. Kinda unfortunate when i have a small boost dip (caused by exhaust/wastegate inefficiencies) at precisely 4400rpm.. doh! It's also interesting to see that one set of boost tables dictates boost pressure under high det activity.
More to come...
shiv
PS. John, the jury is out on being able to store multiple maps on one ECU. Might takes some fancy code juggling to clear up enough memory.
I'm still at the dyno shop working on the 9. Time for another breather. So much for my saturday night
More info:The MIVEC mapping on the stock car is interesting. It is one fat compromise. From the way the stock table looks, it tries to maximize partial throttle torque at low to mid RPM while still trying to skirt around the load/rpm points acheived during the EPA drive cycle test. This makes the power delivery between low to low/mid throttle a little jerky. I noticed this on the road from the minute I drove the car but know it makes a bit more sense. I think I've managed to smoothen the MIVEC map out a bit. Wont know for sure until I take it out on the road.
Boost control: There are multiple tables devoted to boost control. There are several boost target tables (MAF targets), several duty cycle tables, another table which dictates the close loop feedback system, and so on. Pretty neat stuff. The only problem being that I don't yet have access to moving around RPM breakpoints. Currently, they are set ever 500rpm. Kinda unfortunate when i have a small boost dip (caused by exhaust/wastegate inefficiencies) at precisely 4400rpm.. doh! It's also interesting to see that one set of boost tables dictates boost pressure under high det activity.
More to come...
shiv
PS. John, the jury is out on being able to store multiple maps on one ECU. Might takes some fancy code juggling to clear up enough memory.
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Quick update: We've spent the last god-knows-how-many hours making sense of the EVO 9 ECU. Unlike the EVO 8 ECU which has 2 timing and 2 fuel maps and runs on 1 pair until things get really ugly (which pretty much never as long as the ECU is tuned half-way decently), the EVO 9 ECU has 6 timing maps and 2 fuel maps. Now here's the neat/annoying/frustrating/cool part:
The car actively runs on at least 3 of the timing maps, all the time, constantly swapping back and forth between them as the car is driven under different load and knock conditions. The other 3 ignition maps are simply low octane maps that are only induced when detonation gets really nasty (I can only presume so since we prefer to keep that untested). Those have little relevance in a decently tuned car running the appropriate fuel. So lets ignore them for now.
Now back to the three normal timing maps. It appears that they behave like 1st and 2nd lines of defenses when very mild to moderate detonation occurs. Instead of having a knock retard system jump in and jump out as the do in most applications, when minor knock occurs, the ECU defaults to the least aggressive map immediately until the knock subsides. Then it slowly "floats" up the intermediate map (somewhat aggressive) and hangs out there until a few interesting requirements are met. Once met, then and only then with the ECU run the regular aggressive ignition map that we all know and love. This process can take seconds or minutes depending on how the tables and conditions are configured. The advantage of relying on standard look-up tables instead of relying on an active knock control feedback system is speed and stability (I'm glad we released SMART several months ago or we'd be accused of copying the EVO 9 ECU )
These 6 timing maps aren't descriptively labeled. Nor are there any help documents which tell you how exactly they work with one another. Figuring this out meant setting all the timing maps equal to each other and making one small change at a time, in each and every map, over and over and over again until some meaningful trend was observed. Think of all the different permutations possible when trying to isolate the individual functionalities of 6 tables that all work together! All while keeping testing conditions stable enough so that random coolant temp, air intake temp, accel enrichment and other misc. compensations/enrichments/enleanments/etc,. don't screw with the loggged data. This took 2 tanks of gas and over 300 runs on the dyno and we're still in the process of figuring it out completely
The bad news is that this new ECU type is as complicated as just about anything we've seen before. If you approach it like an EVO 8 ECU and just start reworking the high det timing and fuel maps with no consideration on how they intermingle with each other, the results are going to be freighteningly unstable. If you set all the low and high det maps equal to each other (you'd be surprised how many people do this in order to achieve the raw # gains), you lose all the dynamic adaptability that engineered into the ECU. I guess the engineers thought this adaptability is necessary on a 2.0L that is designed to make ~320bhp in stock form on 91oct gas (yeah, it's really that under-rated).
The good news is that the result so far have been ridiculously good. At this stage of remapping, the otherwise stock EVO 9 test car is making nearly as much as power as an EVO 8 running a full turbo-back exhaust and camshafts. And we haven't even got into the MIVEC tables yet!
More to come as it unravels...
Cheers,
Shiv
The car actively runs on at least 3 of the timing maps, all the time, constantly swapping back and forth between them as the car is driven under different load and knock conditions. The other 3 ignition maps are simply low octane maps that are only induced when detonation gets really nasty (I can only presume so since we prefer to keep that untested
). Those have little relevance in a decently tuned car running the appropriate fuel. So lets ignore them for now.Now back to the three normal timing maps. It appears that they behave like 1st and 2nd lines of defenses when very mild to moderate detonation occurs. Instead of having a knock retard system jump in and jump out as the do in most applications, when minor knock occurs, the ECU defaults to the least aggressive map immediately until the knock subsides. Then it slowly "floats" up the intermediate map (somewhat aggressive) and hangs out there until a few interesting requirements are met. Once met, then and only then with the ECU run the regular aggressive ignition map that we all know and love. This process can take seconds or minutes depending on how the tables and conditions are configured. The advantage of relying on standard look-up tables instead of relying on an active knock control feedback system is speed and stability (I'm glad we released SMART several months ago or we'd be accused of copying the EVO 9 ECU
)These 6 timing maps aren't descriptively labeled. Nor are there any help documents which tell you how exactly they work with one another. Figuring this out meant setting all the timing maps equal to each other and making one small change at a time, in each and every map, over and over and over again until some meaningful trend was observed. Think of all the different permutations possible when trying to isolate the individual functionalities of 6 tables that all work together! All while keeping testing conditions stable enough so that random coolant temp, air intake temp, accel enrichment and other misc. compensations/enrichments/enleanments/etc,. don't screw with the loggged data. This took 2 tanks of gas and over 300 runs on the dyno and we're still in the process of figuring it out completely
The bad news is that this new ECU type is as complicated as just about anything we've seen before. If you approach it like an EVO 8 ECU and just start reworking the high det timing and fuel maps with no consideration on how they intermingle with each other, the results are going to be freighteningly unstable. If you set all the low and high det maps equal to each other (you'd be surprised how many people do this in order to achieve the raw # gains), you lose all the dynamic adaptability that
engineered into the ECU. I guess the engineers thought this adaptability is necessary on a 2.0L that is designed to make ~320bhp in stock form on 91oct gas (yeah, it's really that under-rated).The good news is that the result so far have been ridiculously good. At this stage of remapping, the otherwise stock EVO 9 test car is making nearly as much as power as an EVO 8 running a full turbo-back exhaust and camshafts. And we haven't even got into the MIVEC tables yet!
More to come as it unravels...
Cheers,
Shiv
Exactly how much horsepower is the car making so far? Based on your comments, I'm guessing anywhere between 280-300 whp. I'm done braking in the car and have a huge grin on my face thinking about all the posibilities!
Keep up the good work!