Timzcat's results alone tell me that the power is there (stand up guy). It is just a matter of sorting it out. Anyone can make a mistake... I know I have once or twice...

 

I was still at Tuning Technologies last night when I made my last post. This is why I had to be short. Let me provide a few details from yesterday:

Ogwv sent the correct bolt via overnight mail, as promised. Tuning Technologies wrapped up the install yesterday afternoon, and had started the car and gotten it up to operating temperature before I arrived. The gears were set at -4in/-2ex. The dyno wasn't quite ready for me, so I took the car outside to try and make the idle a little more smooth -- it was very very very lopey, to the point that it wanted to die several times. Some adjustment of idle speed (to 1050rpm), fuel, and timing made the idle tolerable. These cams sound extremely aggressive at idle.

So, once I was able to get on the dyno, the first thing I did was take out a pound of boost from the Hallman MBC. We did a total of 6 pulls last night. I was tuning the configuration (with the advice of another expert on the telephone who was seeing all of my data logs live..) in between each pull. For the last two runs, I raised the boost back up to 26psi -- where it was before. We ended up making 9 more lb/ft of torque, and about 9 less horsepower when you compare the best "before cams" run, to the best "after cams" pull. This seemed quite odd since the car sounded/felt fine -- it just wasn't making the expected power.

After speaking with ogvw on the telephone, we decided to zero out the cam gear settings, and double check our base timing. The base timing was correct, per the cam gears and crank indexing. However, when we started the car (still on the dyno) using the 0in/0ex setup, it idled horribly and we heard a great deal of valvetrain noise -- even during off-idle RPMs. We thought that we might have lost a lifter, if that gives you any sense of the noise we heard. So, we then put the cams back to -4in/-2ex and the car returned to idling aggressively with no valvetrain noise. We called it a day, and I drove home without incident. I've not gone over 3k rpm or built any boost since. Very confusing. It doesn't really run poorly enough for me to think that there's a major mechanical issue such as valve timing, but then again, where's the power? Something is certainly not right.

On my way home, I had a long discussion with ogwv. I explained that I felt that I had done my part in purchasing the cam kit, purchasing the best gears money can buy, being patient about the bolt, and traveling to the best installers around (TT really is top notch). He is committed to resolving the issue one way or another. Right now, we're discussing logistical issues being that I'm in SoCal and Revolver is in the Bay Area. It seems likely that the problem will be solved this coming weekend, one way or another.

I'll let you know more as it happens.

 

edit

 

WOW, this one came out of left field. All I have to say is that it was immediately apparent that the stock bolt was not going to work. We went over the options with Scott and he decided it would be best to just go ahead and wait for the correct bolt that should have come with the set in the first place.

Also the bolt that is used in the application has a special flanged head so also a washer woud have been necessary if we had chosen to use a bolt locally. Not a viable solution for the customer or us. I dont see how your post added anything positive or helpful to this thread, actually it did quite the opposite.

Scott, let us know if we can be of any further assisatnce.

 

I must have missed 94AWDcoupe's post. Let me just say that I would be surprised to see anyone post a negative experience with Tuning Technologies. There's a reason I drove 3 hours, rented a car, and slept in a hotel to have them work on my car. Their attention to detail, competence, honesty, humility, and "going the extra mile" mindset set them apart from most shops with whom I've dealt. All of their mechanical methods (including torque specs, torque sequence, and order of operations) are strictly by the book. By this, I mean everything is done to Mitsubishi specifications. They are just as picky and uncompromising as I am, which is rare.

Although anyone can make a mistake, I know I made a good decision in trusting Tuning Technologies with my Evo. Hopefully I'll have a resolution to report by Saturday night.

 

Very well said. I do as much of my own work as possible on my car and have a hard time trusting anybody else to work on my car with the exception of Tuning Technologies. They are experienced and very good to work with . I know you will get to the bottom of this problem. Good luck.

 

i have four questions for you that might help make sense of the data that you are seeing...

1. what ECU is in the car... 2nd gen dsm?
2. did you swap sensors or are you 'mix and matching'?
3. what management are you using... dsmlink?
4. who is 'tuning' the car?

 

1.) I'm using a 1995 EPROM ECU. Yes. 2nd gen DSM.
2.) The sensors are nearly identical, and the ECU reads them accurately. There are a handful of us using the EvoLink solution very successfully. I made 350whp on a Mustang dyno using my own tune on stock cams. This time, I had JustDSM's input throughout the process.
3.) DSMLink
4.) I'm tuning the car, and have a good friend (JustDSM) helping me and making sure it's perfect. JustDSM is probably one of the best DSMLink tuners in the country...seriously. This last weekend, for instance, JustDSM tuned an EvoLink car running the RNR 3076 to 400whp on 91 (EvoM nick is Turbo13), not to mention his own car (search.) I'll happily provide data logs showing timing activity, wideband figures, boost, and any other data point you desire for any/all of the dyno runs before and after the cam install.

I don't mind you asking, but I'm quite certain that it's not the tune or the EMS. Let me know what you want to see, and I'll send it to you, or post it up in this thread.

 

Update:

Ogvw has now seen all of my dyno charts and corresponding data logs and agrees that tuning is not the culprit, here.

Ogvw has informed me that we will not be solving this problem together, in person. There was talk of me driving up to the Bay Area, or he and his partner coming down to Tuning Technologies -- neither is happening now. He doesn't have time, he says. What he will do, though, is send a known-good set of cams out to Tuning Technologies (Saturday delivery) in case it turns out to be the cams.

Ogvw has suggested that my cam gears (brand new Unorthodox Racing) might be mis-indexed, and therefore causing an improper valve-timing condition which is robbing my power (this would be a manufacturing defect in the cam gears). After discussions with Tuning Technologies and others regarding this possibility, I feel this is highly unlikely; however, this has not been proven to be true or false....yet.

My next step seems to be one more (sigh) trip out to Colton, CA. The guys there are fantastic, but they sure are a ways away. We may first put the stock cam gears on the car and see if it acts the same as it did with the UR gears set to 0/0. If so, this will prove that there's a problem with the cams. Or, we may just put the known-good set of cams in the car and leave the gears set as-is, and see what happens. When the problem is solved, we'll strap the car back down on the dyno and see what kind of gains (hopefully) are realized.

Ogvw has promised to "make it right," with me if this problem ends up being the cams.

I'll keep you posted..

 

Ogvw's "good people"... I don't say that because I carry his products, but do to my own dealings with him. If it does turn out to be a "bad cam set", I can't see him not taking care of you in short order.

Good luck on sorting it out...

 

Definitely try the stock gears on the car. The fact that you adjusted the gears back to 0/0 and gained valvetrain noise says something is not right. I am running the stock gears currently and have absolutely no noise. You should not pick up noise with a cam gear adjustment. I am of course assuming the lifters were bled before assembly.

The other thing to check is the cam sensor. The end of the Revolvers I have seen have two indexing positions. Make sure that when the cam is at TDC the reluctor is in the right position. If someone moved the timing and it was installed in the wrong slots it would through off the cam timing enough but possibly not enough to throw a light.

 

One more thing. I suggest pulling the plugs and having them set the engine to TDC and apply air to cylinder #1 until the engine doesn't spin and can take the air on top of the cylinder. This is true TDC and then all the marks should be checked.

It is possible the harmonic damper slipped on the elastomeric ring and it is not at TDC therefore everything based on it is wrong.

 

Thanks, Timzcat. We will look into the CAS possibility as well.

I too feel like ogvw is "good people," I just hope that I end up saying the same about his cams.

 

Got my attention Good luck and keep us posted...

 

if you do , let me know.. i wonder as well since my set up is similar to your, except that you can add a bjs stage 5++ head in the mix