Buschur Racing dyno day results and observations.....
Dayton EVO,
I didn't say you were the low point of my day. I was simply stating that throughout the dyno weekend there were some cars that were low points. Your car not making good power did not make me or Al happy. The 218 whp number that you quoted in your post as "stock", not sure where you got that from. I am not at the shop to look up what your baseline number was. Maybe you are referring to what I said most EVO's stock make on our dyno. This number is between 200 and the highest I ever saw was 218.
Your AFR's were lean when you come in, I remember that, they were lean in the lower RPM's with the AFC settings you had.
Anyway as for the fuel mileage being shot now. I don't know how you had the car adjusted with the AFC when you came in but it would have been set to 0's when Al reflashed it. Unless you have larger injectors he does not change the low end part throttle cruise portions of the map, so that means it should be getting the same mileage it would have stock. If you are driving it harder or it is richer under boost now than it was it could result in lower mileage.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I didn't say you were the low point of my day. I was simply stating that throughout the dyno weekend there were some cars that were low points. Your car not making good power did not make me or Al happy. The 218 whp number that you quoted in your post as "stock", not sure where you got that from. I am not at the shop to look up what your baseline number was. Maybe you are referring to what I said most EVO's stock make on our dyno. This number is between 200 and the highest I ever saw was 218.
Your AFR's were lean when you come in, I remember that, they were lean in the lower RPM's with the AFC settings you had.
Anyway as for the fuel mileage being shot now. I don't know how you had the car adjusted with the AFC when you came in but it would have been set to 0's when Al reflashed it. Unless you have larger injectors he does not change the low end part throttle cruise portions of the map, so that means it should be getting the same mileage it would have stock. If you are driving it harder or it is richer under boost now than it was it could result in lower mileage.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Dayton EVO,
I didn't say you were the low point of my day. I was simply stating that throughout the dyno weekend there were some cars that were low points. Your car not making good power did not make me or Al happy. The 218 whp number that you quoted in your post as "stock", not sure where you got that from. I am not at the shop to look up what your baseline number was. Maybe you are referring to what I said most EVO's stock make on our dyno. This number is between 200 and the highest I ever saw was 218.
Your AFR's were lean when you come in, I remember that, they were lean in the lower RPM's with the AFC settings you had.
Anyway as for the fuel mileage being shot now. I don't know how you had the car adjusted with the AFC when you came in but it would have been set to 0's when Al reflashed it. Unless you have larger injectors he does not change the low end part throttle cruise portions of the map, so that means it should be getting the same mileage it would have stock. If you are driving it harder or it is richer under boost now than it was it could result in lower mileage.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I didn't say you were the low point of my day. I was simply stating that throughout the dyno weekend there were some cars that were low points. Your car not making good power did not make me or Al happy. The 218 whp number that you quoted in your post as "stock", not sure where you got that from. I am not at the shop to look up what your baseline number was. Maybe you are referring to what I said most EVO's stock make on our dyno. This number is between 200 and the highest I ever saw was 218.
Your AFR's were lean when you come in, I remember that, they were lean in the lower RPM's with the AFC settings you had.
Anyway as for the fuel mileage being shot now. I don't know how you had the car adjusted with the AFC when you came in but it would have been set to 0's when Al reflashed it. Unless you have larger injectors he does not change the low end part throttle cruise portions of the map, so that means it should be getting the same mileage it would have stock. If you are driving it harder or it is richer under boost now than it was it could result in lower mileage.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Well under normal conditions the gas mileage sucks now worse than stock(not driving hard). I just want to know what to do that's all. MY dyno results were basically 217.5(or 218 what you used as a baseline stock #) so that is what my print out says as well as you. If you were joking about my Evo being the lowest HP one you have seen, then fine. If not, then I need to figure out what the issue is. My car ran much stronger coming up than leaving. On the highway from home to you, I got 200 miles on a little less than a half tank. On the way back driving like a granny, I got barely 140 for a half tank of fuel. I know you guys joke alot and I understand that, but i take what you were saying to me as being chastised for buying AMS and living in Ohio. You throwing the burnt dyno strap at my feet and telling me that I have to pay for it before leaving is very insulting and unprofessional (joking or not,especially since I'm not the one who strapped it to the dyno). So with that said and a low dyno run, I was not very pleased at all. I figure there is some issues. I respect you immensely as a business though. I want to know possible causes and resolution to the power issue. The car has always been strong, strong enough to get 13.3's in the 1/4 bone stock. So what are the possible issues and resolutions here?
You know it's funny though, I traveled 200+ miles to get there and expected the treatment I got. I do not like to and will not bad mouth companies or people because it accomplishes nothing, that is why I asked you to PM me in my post as to keep this off the forum. Do me right and you have my permanent business, I told this when I was there.
Just PM me back David and we can discuss these things in private so the trolls don't come in and start a flame fest.
Thankyou
Last edited by Dayton_EVO; Feb 19, 2006 at 03:20 PM.
Dayton, FWIW, the factory tune is lean in the lower RPMs on every Evo. That is why we have the problem with SAFCs and peak torque. In order to run high boost in the low rpms without knocking, we have to add fuel there, since the factory tune is over 12.0:1. The problem with adding fuel there is the ECU then uses a less aggressive timing map. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, which is why the SoCal SAFC guys go with injectors - this allows you to remove fuel in the lower rpms without running lean and thus tricking the ECU into using a more aggressive timing map. It's usual and likely to be lean in the lower rpms with an SAFC unless fuel has been ADDED, and this is something that people usually don't do.
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
All AMS standard settings and no low throttle or low RPM adjustments at all. Why there was a lean condition down low is beyond me. And if this did not make you or Al happy about low power, then why was I not afforded the same courtesy as was extended to the others. You know, like you guys spent 4 hours on the red MR IX to resolve her issues among others. No one even checked my car to see if there were any problems at all.
Well under normal conditions the gas mileage sucks now worse than stock(not driving hard). I just want to know what to do that's all. MY dyno results were basically 217.5(or 218 what you used as a baseline stock #) so that is what my print out says as well as you. If you were joking about my Evo being the lowest HP one you have seen, then fine. If not, then I need to figure out what the issue is. My car ran much stronger coming up than leaving. On the highway from home to you, I got 200 miles on a little less than a half tank. On the way back driving like a granny, I got barely 140 for a half tank of fuel. I know you guys joke alot and I understand that, but i take what you were saying to me as being chastised for buying AMS and living in Ohio. You throwing the burnt dyno strap at my feet and telling me that I have to pay for it before leaving is very insulting and unprofessional(joking or not,especially since I'm not the one who strapped it to the dyno). So with that said and a low dyno run, I was not very pleased at all. I figure there is some issues. I respect you immensely as a business though. I want to know possible causes and resolution to the power issue. The car has always been strong, strong enough to get 13.3's in the 1/4 bone stock. So what are the possible issues and resolutions here?
You know it's funny though, I traveled 200+ miles to get there and expected the treatment I got. I do not like to and will not bad mouth companies or people because it accomplishes nothing, that is why I asked you to PM me in my post as to keep this off the forum. Do me right and you have my permanent business, I told this when I was there.
Just PM me back David and we can discuss these things in private so the trolls don't come in and start a flame fest.
Thankyou
Well under normal conditions the gas mileage sucks now worse than stock(not driving hard). I just want to know what to do that's all. MY dyno results were basically 217.5(or 218 what you used as a baseline stock #) so that is what my print out says as well as you. If you were joking about my Evo being the lowest HP one you have seen, then fine. If not, then I need to figure out what the issue is. My car ran much stronger coming up than leaving. On the highway from home to you, I got 200 miles on a little less than a half tank. On the way back driving like a granny, I got barely 140 for a half tank of fuel. I know you guys joke alot and I understand that, but i take what you were saying to me as being chastised for buying AMS and living in Ohio. You throwing the burnt dyno strap at my feet and telling me that I have to pay for it before leaving is very insulting and unprofessional(joking or not,especially since I'm not the one who strapped it to the dyno). So with that said and a low dyno run, I was not very pleased at all. I figure there is some issues. I respect you immensely as a business though. I want to know possible causes and resolution to the power issue. The car has always been strong, strong enough to get 13.3's in the 1/4 bone stock. So what are the possible issues and resolutions here?
You know it's funny though, I traveled 200+ miles to get there and expected the treatment I got. I do not like to and will not bad mouth companies or people because it accomplishes nothing, that is why I asked you to PM me in my post as to keep this off the forum. Do me right and you have my permanent business, I told this when I was there.
Just PM me back David and we can discuss these things in private so the trolls don't come in and start a flame fest.
Thankyou
A car motor is a air pump and the more air you pump the more power you make.
if you feel your power level is low - do some investigation
I would check the normal culprits
1 - Compression test
2 - Boost leak test
3 - Check general tune up items - spark plugs, air filter etc.
There is no mystery - given a normal timing number, a.f and boost level if the car is not making power then the tuning session is over and it means that it is time to start looking at the mechanical parts to find a cause.
In many cases, at dyno days it is not possible to take cars off the dyno and diagnose and repair them and go back on the dyno which is why I suggest that people getting tuned go through a check list BEFORE they get they get tuned.
When i am doing a reflash tune, my function is to adjust the fuel timing and mivec tables (if applicable) and flash the ecu. Finding problems with cars I have not worked on and have not sold parts for or serviced is NOT part of what I do - although I do offer a fair amount of free diagnostic support and assistance.
BTW - were you the guy who we swapped a bov on?
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
Makes sense, but I thought that the Evo is tuned very rich from the factory? So it is just in the upper RPMS then?
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
There is no great mystery to making normal whp levels.
A car motor is a air pump and the more air you pump the more power you make.
if you feel your power level is low - do some investigation
I would check the normal culprits
1 - Compression test
2 - Boost leak test
3 - Check general tune up items - spark plugs, air filter etc.
There is no mystery - given a normal timing number, a.f and boost level if the car is not making power then the tuning session is over and it means that it is time to start looking at the mechanical parts to find a cause.
In many cases, at dyno days it is not possible to take cars off the dyno and diagnose and repair them and go back on the dyno which is why I suggest that people getting tuned go through a check list BEFORE they get they get tuned.
When i am doing a reflash tune, my function is to adjust the fuel timing and mivec tables (if applicable) and flash the ecu. Finding problems with cars I have not worked on and have not sold parts for or serviced is NOT part of what I do - although I do offer a fair amount of free diagnostic support and assistance.
BTW - were you the guy who we swapped a bov on?
A car motor is a air pump and the more air you pump the more power you make.
if you feel your power level is low - do some investigation
I would check the normal culprits
1 - Compression test
2 - Boost leak test
3 - Check general tune up items - spark plugs, air filter etc.
There is no mystery - given a normal timing number, a.f and boost level if the car is not making power then the tuning session is over and it means that it is time to start looking at the mechanical parts to find a cause.
In many cases, at dyno days it is not possible to take cars off the dyno and diagnose and repair them and go back on the dyno which is why I suggest that people getting tuned go through a check list BEFORE they get they get tuned.
When i am doing a reflash tune, my function is to adjust the fuel timing and mivec tables (if applicable) and flash the ecu. Finding problems with cars I have not worked on and have not sold parts for or serviced is NOT part of what I do - although I do offer a fair amount of free diagnostic support and assistance.
BTW - were you the guy who we swapped a bov on?
Wasn't me with the swapped BOV. I had the TB Evo(I like my cars like I like my women.. LOL You should remember me now) with the 18" wheels on it Friday that you took me out for a spin and showed me how the launch control worked(bought me a drink, thanks). BTW, you were the high point of the trip because you were cool as hell when we talked. Anyway, I understand what you are saying. The whole trip seemed to be a big farce and disppointment for me. I did check everything on the car, especially since I as a company did all the work and must say it was flawless.
There is no boost leak, the plugs are fine, the compression is perfect, the K&N flat panel filter ( you made a comment about not worrying about changing it in the winter) was just cleaned and lightly oiled before the trip, but probably time for an oil change is about it. So I am at a loss 
So all things considered, what power should I realistically be at?
Last edited by Dayton_EVO; Feb 19, 2006 at 03:54 PM.
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
Wasn't me with the swapped BOV. I had the TB Evo(I like my cars like I like my women.. LOL You should remember me now) with the 18" wheels on it Friday that you took me out for a spin and showed me how the launch control worked(bought me a drink, thanks). BTW, you were the high point of the trip because you were cool as hell when we talked. Anyway, I understand what you are saying. The whole trip seemed to be a big farce and disppointment for me. I did check everything on the car, especially since I as a company did all the work and must say it was flawless. There is no boost leak, the plugs are fine, the compression is perfect, the K&N flat panel filter ( you made a comment about not worrying about changing it in the winter) was just cleaned and lightly oiled before the trip, but probably time for an oil change is about it. So I am at a loss
There is no boost leak, the plugs are fine, the compression is perfect, the K&N flat panel filter ( you made a comment about not worrying about changing it in the winter) was just cleaned and lightly oiled before the trip, but probably time for an oil change is about it. So I am at a loss Any boost controll?
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Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
No. I had the the AMS TBE, test pipe, K&N flat panel, Manual boost control, Apexi-SAFCII, light weight Pro-Street flywheel/ACT HD clutch.
just wondering but do you have any ideling problems with the lighter flyhweel??
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Originally Posted by 300whpwrx
just wondering but do you have any ideling problems with the lighter flyhweel??
None whatsoever. Idles just fine. Idles like it did stock and revs quick.
i bet i could have beat ya as far as having the lowest numbers for the evos..
i was there friday night with a buddy and i didnt run my car on the dyno cause it was completely stock. come to think of it.. i just kind of 'took up space' watching.
it was pretty cool to just watch and talk though with the people that where there saturday night. the drive home for me (about 20-25 mins) took over and hour cause of the snow. that was one bad drive home, i can't imagine what the guys with hour drives ahead of them went through
i was there friday night with a buddy and i didnt run my car on the dyno cause it was completely stock. come to think of it.. i just kind of 'took up space' watching.
it was pretty cool to just watch and talk though with the people that where there saturday night. the drive home for me (about 20-25 mins) took over and hour cause of the snow. that was one bad drive home, i can't imagine what the guys with hour drives ahead of them went through
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
No. I had the the AMS TBE, test pipe, K&N flat panel, Manual boost control, Apexi-SAFCII, light weight Pro-Street flywheel/ACT HD clutch.
The power numbers on the BR dyno are on the low side - maybe the 18" wheels have a greater effect than on other dynos
I owuld suggest you go to 1/4 mile track and see what your mph is as that is the best indication of your actual power
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You could be right Al. I know the rims are lighter than stock, but who know's. I will definatley get to the track when they open, hopefully in early spring here in Ohio. All I know is the 11.1 Second Intense Racing car had a very hard time pulling away from me this last Friday when they tried to run me on a back road in Plain City. I was up getting my friends Cobalt SS Tuned and they tried to out run me with my wife in the car and a full tank of fuel and it didn't turn out like they thought. I started walking him. So something is really strange in this situation. So I will definately hit the strip when they open to try and solve this.
Has anyone else had an issue like this with bigger rims? Please feel free to chime in.
Thanks for your time Al.
Has anyone else had an issue like this with bigger rims? Please feel free to chime in.
Thanks for your time Al.