TME would actually burn up more quickly than a standard turbo. Nickel-based superalloys lik Inconel like high temperatures more than gamma titanium aluminide, which has its oxidation limit at around 1600*F. Most injection anti-lag systems just require you to have an inconel turbine wheel. Throttle bypass ones require inconel exhaust valves as well.

And it sure would be funny to see a 500+ whp Evo running around an autocross course with anti-lag.

It'd need a custom license plate frame which read, "Warning: Anti-lag. Mind your eyebrows."

 

nevermind

 

it's not titanium aluminde and it would last longer than the inconel which is why they use it in rally. it's more stable at temperatures that exceed 1400 degrees F is waht i recall the catch phrase being.

also where does anyone get the idea that you kill the turbo in 2 races? unless you're spitting as much as they do in rally or unless you're punishing more than a corperate backed car you're not going to. you replace it when either the turbine wheel breaks or the one of the housings or manifolds cracks... that's not every race or even every other race. they don't go through a turbo every event in wrc... and i know the local autox guy that runs fire crackers in his exhaust is still on the same turbo.

 

What do you mean it's not titanium aluminide? I thought the TME 6.5 was. If not Titanium Aluminide, then what?

In Rally, Titanium Aluminide is just used because it is lighter. As I said, it does not take as well to extremely high heat- not as well as inconel.

In any case, here's the matweb page on Titanium aluminide: http://www.matweb.com/search/Specifi...assnum=MIAL010

Special Metals PDF on Inconel 600: http://www.specialmetals.com/documen...lloy%20600.pdf

NASA has been doing work on Gamma Titanium Aluminide: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT1996/5000/5160bi.htm

Another paper on TiAl, this time using failure analysis: http://www.gkss.de/templates/images_...richt_Tial.pdf

As I said, Titanium Aluminides (primarily gamma) are used for weight savings at moderate temperatures. At extremely high temperatures, in the realm of anti-lag, they are inferior.

C'est la vie.

 

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=Lancer_EVO

they say it is significantly more stable at 1600 degrees F. if that's a lie then i still know someone that uses bang bang and is on the same turbocharger.

i always thot it was just titanium something else... not aluminide. but if they say it is then it is... also the entire wheel is titanium... not just hte shaft.

also what must be considered is the method of antilag... if you're using a fuel dump type tuning without spark... then your antilag expansion (detonation) occurs at the manifold and or turbine wheel... this will cause any wheel regardless of make up to fail faster. however if you misfire your antilag system the expansion occures mostly in the manifold which means the gases are at elevated temperatures but this is well below the tensile strength and strain/stress thresholds of the ti al. it does weaken your wheel and it will be prone to the brittleness of being oxidized but it will take longer for the wheel to actually fail. after which point you've prolly fried some bearings from the heat and you end up refinishing your entire chra.

unless you're running antilag daily... replacement or REBUILDING of the turbo is not so oft... like i said... even in wrc they do not swap the turbos after every event. i'd say you'd have to put ONE TON of miles on a bang banged turbo in order to warrent replacement of crucial parts. and if you're running antilag that often... you're either not worried... or really dumb. also... do not run antilag in the canyons... you will catch **** on fire.... and then burn things down.... bad.

 

It may be significantly more stable at 1600*F. But anti-lag pushes the temepratures much higher than that. As an interesting side note, since TiAl reaches an oxidation limit before its creep limit, coating it with a barrier coating, like Yittrium Oxide, would allow you to push your EGT to the TiAl's creep limit of about 1850*F.

It's definitely not a regular titanium alloy. Titanium has extremely poor strength at elevated temperatures. Also, under the right conditions, Titanium can combust. Titanium fires are a occasional hazzard to jet engines with Titanium compressor blades in the later comressor stages. A titanium fire can completely destroy an engine.

You certainly can use anti-lag with Titanium Aluminide. Though I'd still say that Inconel will survive anti-lag better, combining anti-lag with a Titanium Aluminide wheel will result in some seriously quick spool-up.

I agree. A well-designed anti-lag system should last you through many autocross events.

However, that said, not all anti-lag systems are well designed ...

 

pics and updates!

 

Bump for Precision Dyno updates!

 

I hate I missed this thread when it was hot, but I gotta clear some things up:

Actually, Mitsubishi has been there done that and moved on to something else; first GDI and then plenty of turbo engines with torque :

Witness the DOHC MIVEC 4G92:
http://www.j-garage.com/mitsubishi/mirage/cyborg.htm
175hp and 1.6L = 109 per liter

and the 6A10 1.6L V6 that is stock at 140, but look what tuners did with it years ago:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6A10_engine

FTO's 2.0L DOHC MIVEC V6 made 200hp:
http://www.j-garage.com/mitsubishi/fto/de3a.htm

The Evo9's MIVEC system is rudimentary compared to these cars, but the Evo 9 has a turbo, so why compare it to a system used on Honda's N/A performance products? Sounds like you are jealous of all the hoopla over the IX's. Mitsubishis MIVEC has been around on production cars since 1992, which if I am correct is older then Toyota's, Nissan's and Subaru's. Only 2 years shy of Honda.

It makes the stock or minor bolt on car experience better, so yeah if you are building a 1000hp Honda or Mitsubishi you will probably end up using Vtec or Mivec killer cams for max effect, but for those of us with more mundane power requiremnts, variable valve timing is a good idea.

 

i heard they have better camshafts

 

because there are no instances of engine design that reaped benefits in na that did not reap benefits in tc.

with that said we're obviously already on the same page. mivec is a good thing, i just wish it did both cams, i could care less about the lift.

i'd have to ask one last time... who cares about variable lift? just get a set of bad *** high lift cams with lots of overlap and let the mivec's 5 degrees of seperation at idle take care of the idle, let it's gradual decrease of seperation in the low end take care of the low end torque and then let the max overlap at top end make your engine scream up top.

but i do wish it could advance and retard both cams at the same time. that would allow for more torque bump down low or more peak power up top depending on your preference.

 

Variable lift usually also causes something similar to variable duration. (Honda's VTEC has an entirely different set of cam lobes.) In the case of Mitsu's variable lift setup, the seat-to-seat duration is unchanged, but the .050 or .100 duration is shortened. That has a similar effect to lowering the overal duration since little air flows at such low lift.

The combination of lower duration and lower lift has a number of benefits, not the least of which are better fuel economy and, in some instances, better torque. The downside is less power. But when the lift/duration are variable, you can get the best of both worlds.

 

I thought it was already established that the EVO9 MIVEC only changes cam timing, not duration, not lift ....

 

I really think it is the Turbo. I have seen an 03 with a Evo IX Turbo and not only did it spool FASTER it made IX power. Of course it did not spool as fast as the IX, and it stilll gave a THWACK Vs. a gradual rise in power. I like the thwack.

 

I understand that, but I see the IX as more of a stop gap, just a minor implemntation with the least amount of risk involved while Mitsubishi puts all of its engineering talents into the Evo X. I think you will see a full implementation of MIVEC the next time around. Then the comparisons can be made.

As of right now, we have all been satisfied in the 4G63 world *NOT* having any sort of variabel valve timing. As tuners it kept things simpler.