It's the nature of a capitalistic society. Even more so, it's the nature of a capitalistic society in a world economy. There's no blame to be had or blame to be given, it is what it is. Understanding that, embracing it, and forging the lead is what will allow America to continue to be the world's economic power. The auto industry is beginning to understand that.

As for jobs, we're all expendable. Health care costs, currency evaluation, high standards of living, those are all factors. America must learn to be competitive once again. To be honest, it won't do that being a blue collar society. It must be an innovator and leader to survive. Our labor costs alone are just too high, to support our inflated standard of living.

"Buy American", that's not entirely possible in today's world economy. The semiconductor industry is a good example, you can't really buy American. Sure, it's an Intel chip, but where is the motherboard made, where are all the transistors coming from, where was it fabbed? What about the many 100s of fabless semiconductor companies? NVidia, ATI, S3, if just naming a few in the graphics card business. More than likely, it's fabbed in Taiwan at TSMC or UMC. It's definitely not 100% American. The auto industry is another. At best, it's assembled in America with parts made in Mexico, China, and even Canada.

It's funny how people say made in China means Chinesium, or cheap stuff. It wasn't long ago that Made in Japan signified low quality, and now, Japan is a high tech leader. How many "buy american" folks have a sony product of some sort? Do you have a Playstation, or Nintendo? Do you have a product that uses flash memory? Ipod, or digital camera? A camcorder? The paper I use to write on, where did that come from? The pens, the ink, the buttons on my shirt, the cotton in my jeans, my shoelaces?

Many of the arguments made just aren't applicable in today's world economy. The only lesson to be learned, change with the times or file Chapter 11. That is just the nature of capitalism in a rapid pace, consumer oriented environment. "I want what I want, whenever I want it, at the best possible price...and on my doorstep by yesterday!"

 

I fully understand and support peoples right to shop where ever they want. I just wish most of them understood that one day, all of these cool little specialty stores that people like to go to and brouse, will all be online. You will either shop walmart, or the Guitar center if you know what i mean. Those guys move in, and there are alot of little cool stores that fade away.......to me, paying an extra $10 for somthing at a mom and pop store will always be worth it. Perhaps even keeping them off welfare might even keep taxes in check......who knows.....RRR

 

i don't always agree with Dave, but on this i most certainly do...

we refuse to outsource, period..

IMO besides the QC, it just doesnt have the same character as an american made part. so much heart goes into all of these new products that heartbreak occurs when we see our stuff reproduced very poorly on ebay...

 

i guess the shop american thing is impossible with a lotta things. but in those areas it's not as if america doesn't have its share of what i will call proud production to the point that americans aren't reinvesting in america.

the idea is to keep what can be done in america right? to reinvest in america or somehow find a way to bolster america's economy "personally".

and in the end i stick to my guns... americans don't have pride in what they produce. there are many industries in america that do not tolerate anything but hte highest quality and the highest standards or production, weapons contractors are the first to come to mind. you'll never find raytheon, northrop, general atomics or any of hte government labs cutting corners. they're a hundred billion dollar industry and america pays americans to keep us on top of everything else in the world technologically.

why can't we produce cars that way? why can't we produce everything else that way?

you guys talk about how the japanese somehow get by without health care from their car companies... yet they still produce very good products.

i mean i'm not pointing fingers but... i'm really just curious now... why is it like this in america?

 

I just ran across this, and it brings topic along the same lines being discussed here. Have a quick look...discuss. If I were this person, I'd tell the county they could kiss my you know what...

http://cbs4denver.com/local/local_story_061125200.html

 

Oh, please.

The guy in the article is blowing things a little out of proportion, he's promoting his side job on his first job's property without permission. I wouldn't let one of my guys do that, American flag, Peruvian flag, Mexican flag, whatever.

Yes, he should be able to promote his business, but not to the point of making it a policy issue with town politics.

 

+1, Its good to hear from a vendor that has the same ideals as us consumers and enthusiasts. And you are backing up your beliefs by keeping jobs here. This thread makes me feel especially proud that I have a Buschur exhaust on my Evo.

PS: You are a great business man, bc I'm sure most ppl that read this will support you, not only in your ideals but also in product sales, I know I will.

 

You know it has gotten to the point that I hate reading political or social comentary from folks here on EvoM. I come here to read and learn about my car and products for it. The problem is more and more the peoples whos opinion I trust for my car, have political or social comentary/ideas that I totaly dissagree with. And frankly it makes me think twice about following future posts with automotive insight. Only Americans are so aragant as to get pissed off to press one button to decide which language to read or listen to. The language is called English not American we don't own. America is an amalgamation of other cultures that we are supposed to be accept freely without persecution. All to often the same person that wants every Mexican to completely assimilate language and all, is later telling me to take my African American a$$ back to africa. And you know what 4 out of 5 times my family has been here much longer.

Forget blaming it all on illegal aliens. If they couldn't get hired here, they wouldn't come for jobs. If they don't pay taxes, its cus their employer doesn't take them out. I don't know about you but my net pay is minus taxes and SS ect ect, taxes get taken out of my check cus my employer does it.

 

Its funny he who complains about English or the generally accepted language of the US for the past 250 years has to use gangster, rapper or code words in his post. Who's langauge is that? Why does this country need to suddenly conform to those that have recently taken up residence? I wasn't forced to learn Spanish or any other langauge in school. Not going to start now. Anyone who feels they are being treated unfairly. Go to another country. Learn their langauge. See how accomodating they are to you!!
Back to the original intent of this topic. Time will tell the effect China and other countries manufacturering will have on the US.

 

I agree with TR and DB on this one. You have to be a moron to believe that pluralism is a viable philosophy regarding immigration. If you want proof you have only to look at the issues faced by England, Denmark, and France with thier Muslim populations. I am an ardent supporter of legal immigration and I favor penalizing not only illegal immigrants but those that employ them. The thing about Mexican immigrants (as well as other hispanic/latins) is that they do share our basic values and when assimilated make a great contribution to the country.

 

I don't know man Mexicans have been in what is now called California since before it was a state.

 

you know what is totally ironic is that quote from roosevelt is the quote made by antoher roosevelt 40 years later saying almost the same thing. cept this time he says it conveniently to allow japanese to serve in the military after he had then recently signed legislation to have them all taken out of their homes and moved into the midwest simply because they were japanese, many of them not even freshly immigrated, "american" for SEVERAL generations. so since roosevelt determined tehy were american (again) it's totally ok for them to die for america now right, even tho they lost their livelihoods and their homes (and they never got them back). and tehn the japanese go and do the darndest thing ever, they become the battalion that suffers the most casualties and become the most decorated batallion to ever exist with the most purple hearts... this is of course after the united states puts them in the "operation human shield".

it is very foolish to believe that there is some solid imorphable definition of "american", it is only whatever serves the people in power best and right now they need people to mop floors do dishes pick weeds, mow lawns and work in mcdonalds... and what's more... they need people that will work hard at it. know any "americans" willing to do that? give me a break, don't buy into presidential commentary so easily, i think anything a president says is highly questionable.

 

Illegal immigration is directly supported by ethically challenged hiring practices. There are very large companies that maintain clandestine illegal identity programs that allow them to employ individuals that otherwise should not employable. This directly results in a large influx of immigrants that exist outside the official system. I don't blame anyone coming here looking for a better life/job, if I grew up in the conditions many people find themselves in south of the Rio Grande I would probably have crossed the border as well. The problem is we have not developed a way to deal with mass immigration effectively. We're no longer a melting pot either, we are a gigantic community of segregated cultural factions. Many of which inherently clash or do not happily co-exsit.

The real bottom line here is that we, as a country, are on the way down. Its been happening since the 60s. Part of this is the rest of the world is on the way up. The world economy and human society is trying to reach a point of equilibrium. Its not global communism, its global communalism. Goods and services are starting the journey towards “real value” in a system based on supply and demand. This results in a long term overall devaluation.

I don’t know which generation were on at this point, but the employment prospects for children born 10 years from now are difficult to imagine.

 

If you want to see perfect examples of real value vs supply and demand, look at the prices for Eclipse/DSM parts vs Evo parts. Some components are very nearly the exact same thing but cost half to even a 1/4 as much as the corresponding Evo parts. Eclipse/DSM parts sell for closer to their Real Value because the demand has dropped. This happens on a much larger scale across the board on nearly every consumer product. One really tragic example is the diamond industry.

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/di...j/childiam.htm

Here is a good article on the price control by De Beers, this link may make some people very unhappy...

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond

 

Word, or for those that only speak American, damn right!

BTW, when Teddy said that back in what 1906, my great grand father was not able to vote and was a second class citizen. It would be another 48 years (1954) until my father was not deemed 2nd class.