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warped head, gasket what else?

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Old Jul 9, 2006 | 08:39 PM
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From: Bellevue. WA
warped head, gasket what else?

Engine got pretty hot today. In the middle of a lapping session I noticed the coolant gauge was pegged on hot. Limped in to the pits to find a slice in the coolant hose to the turbo(?).
all(?) the water had pumped out. (make note to self, rig coolant spark trim to make the car stumble to a stop when the water gets hot.)

Sliced off a bit of catch can tubing and replaced the sliced hose. Waited a bit and added water. once started the coolant bottle bubbled in time with the piston strokes.
dip stick is oil only.

how bad is it? gasket and warped head, what else?
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Old Jul 9, 2006 | 09:00 PM
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From: Colorado
Originally Posted by nothere
Engine got pretty hot today. In the middle of a lapping session I noticed the coolant gauge was pegged on hot. Limped in to the pits to find a slice in the coolant hose to the turbo(?).
all(?) the water had pumped out. (make note to self, rig coolant spark trim to make the car stumble to a stop when the water gets hot.)

Sliced off a bit of catch can tubing and replaced the sliced hose. Waited a bit and added water. once started the coolant bottle bubbled in time with the piston strokes.
dip stick is oil only.

how bad is it? gasket and warped head, what else?

Sorry to hear that! As you noted, the head gasket is obvious. It might not be blown, but that would be your best outcome. The head gasket could be OK, but the head warped enough to cause the pressure to coolant passages. You'll have water in your oil soon, if you don't already. Since you don't want to pump water into the cylinders, I'd suggest flatbedding it to where ever you're going to get it fixed, unless you're doing it yourself In the meantime, I'd drain all the coolant, remove the plugs and spin it a few times to make sure if there's any coolant in the cylinders you get as much of it out as possible; then spray oil into the cylinders from the sparkplug holes, drain the oil from the pan to check it and refill with inexpensive fresh oil (so you don't forget and start it dry ) and get the head off as quickly as possible, so that you can get the pistons, rings, and cylinder walls cleaned up and minimize any rusting.

The cylinder head should be checked with a straight edge to see how badly it's warped. Then you can figure out whether you have sufficient material to mill it flat again, or whether you need a replacement head core. When you consider the options for milling the head, check the (installed) thicknesses of the available head gaskets, so you know what you have available to "shim" for the loss of the thickness of the head which would need to be milled off. The closer you come to stock dimensions, the better, so your cam sprockets will still yield the proper timing.

While the head is off (and apart), if you have any money left over and ever plan to do springs, retainers or cams, you can have them installed now for just the cost of the parts.

That's a good start.
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Old Jul 14, 2006 | 05:38 PM
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From: Bellevue. WA
thanks CO VR4.

heard back from the shop, yep, the gasket was shot and now news that the head is gone. warped pretty bad.
decided to replace rather than repair.

one issue that makes me wonder, the valves kissed the pistons. These were new marks, at this lapping day I may have hit my rev limit once @7600. Six of the valves were bent.
Since I don't think they were over reved what could have happened.
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Old Jul 14, 2006 | 05:43 PM
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I think I answered this in another thread already but I would have to guess that the valves stuck in the guide because they got so hot.

If I were you I would put a Cometic gasket in it with ARP studs final torqued to 85 ft. lbs.
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Old Jul 14, 2006 | 09:54 PM
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From: Colorado
Sorry to hear about the head damage. Heads are spendy...

Timzcat could be right about the valve guides, although I'd think that when the head and guides got very hot from the lack of coolant, they'd expand in size. Anyway, if you're ever thinking about cams or an upgraded spring/retainer setup, now's the time, I'd guess...

When the shop is ready to install the new head, make sure that they check the pistons for cracking and if they're all good, smooth out the marks from hitting the valves so you don't have any hot spots in the chamber.

As I recall, the factory head gasket is a multi layer steel, which does pretty well. Cometic makes a good gasket too. AMS has some new head studs that they did in conjunction with Titan that look interesting, and if you look at ARP's offerings, they have a very nice undercut stud set that costs about $30 more than the standards, but offers some advantages over the standard set, too. I'd certainly recommend one of the stud sets over bolts (factory).

Good luck.

Last edited by CO_VR4; Jul 14, 2006 at 09:58 PM.
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Old Jul 15, 2006 | 07:40 PM
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From: Bellevue. WA
This is the hose that had a slit in it. On the underside at the bend. It managed to blow out all the coolant without alerting any of the corner workers that it was leaking.
It is the same hose that had a recall on 2005 models.

Last edited by nothere; May 20, 2007 at 03:40 PM.
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Old Jul 15, 2006 | 08:51 PM
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From: Bezerkley
Sorry to hear about the motor. I wasn't aware that the hose is a recall on the 05's. I'll have to make sure that I get mine checked. Good luck.
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Old Jul 19, 2006 | 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CO_VR4
Sorry to hear about the head damage. Heads are spendy...

Timzcat could be right about the valve guides, although I'd think that when the head and guides got very hot from the lack of coolant, they'd expand in size. Anyway, if you're ever thinking about cams or an upgraded spring/retainer setup, now's the time, I'd guess...

When the shop is ready to install the new head, make sure that they check the pistons for cracking and if they're all good, smooth out the marks from hitting the valves so you don't have any hot spots in the chamber.

As I recall, the factory head gasket is a multi layer steel, which does pretty well. Cometic makes a good gasket too. AMS has some new head studs that they did in conjunction with Titan that look interesting, and if you look at ARP's offerings, they have a very nice undercut stud set that costs about $30 more than the standards, but offers some advantages over the standard set, too. I'd certainly recommend one of the stud sets over bolts (factory).

Good luck.
Carbon gets on valve stems and many manufacturers have problems with this on normal commuter cars because of intentionally tight tolerance. My theory is, imagine the valve temperature if the engine is that hot. It's enough to cherry the valve face/seat area. I agree the guide would get bigger but so does the stem under this kind of heat.

IMO there is no comparison between the stock gasket and the Cometic. The Cometic has the viton material on the outer layers for sealing where the stocker has those raised silicone sealing areas. (stock will "push" those seals)
Head and block finish are important with the Cometic. IT is intended to be used with a very smooth surface finish. (30 RA ballpark)
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