Are you experiencing any problems with the tranny? You should not continue to drive the car until you have put the correct fluid in the tranny. If the transmission is damaged, have the dealership pay for it.

 

Kee1pride: Follow the link below

http://www.mitsubishiparts.net/catalog/?section=489

You want the 6 speed manual tranny fluid, part # MZ313376

Get the LSD gear out out of there asap, it will put extra strain on your sychros as it is a more viscous fluid.

Sooo EVIL

 

No. Can't say I have noticed anything. However if this one breaks they are paying for it and I will rip them right into court to pay for it.

the first time my transmission broke i didn't even bother taking to them because i thought it was my fault and was going to take responsibility for my actions. so i sent it to TRE to be race built. well later i come to find out it's my mechanics fault and he installed my clutch in wrong and bent a passenger side axle seal. oil leaked out and it bbq'd it self. regardless the point is i didn't try and take it to mitsubishi and took the honest road. if it breaks this time, it's their damn fault and i will seek payment for it.

 

Is the 05 VIII MR tranny the same as the 06 IX MR tranny?

 

The critical point that needs to be made is that the effective torque passing through the gearset is a function of the ratios, and each successively higher gear has less effective torque operating on it than the lower gears before it.

The measured effective torque drops as gearing between the crank and the rear wheel rises (lowers numerically) and power is wasted through friction at each transfer of power between internal components. With the engine in first gear, more torque gets applied than it does in any higher gear. As gear ratios rise (drop numerically), the mechanical advantage of the engine (read: measured or effective torque) drops. And each successively higher gear will fall lower on the torque chart than the gear before it, as a result of gearing effect (mechanical advantage) and energy losses.

Thus, from an engineering standpoint, all gears do not see the same torque load (like, e.g., 380 ft/lbs at the crank). One must calculate the specific torque load an engine will create on a specific gear in order to determine its effective torque rating, and the engine would have to put out torque readings in excess of the specific gear's effective torque rating in that gear in order to have the potential of damaging the gear through torque alone.

Heat reduces the strength of the gears and makes it more plastic. Heat any gearset enough and you will have the potential to draw the temper from the metal (like annealing it in a heat treating context), and cause it to have lower strength characteristics. If you can remove excess heat from the transmission with a transmission fluid cooler and pump, you can keep the critical temperature lower and reduce the temperature effect on the gearset.

Jon (TRE) also has some other modifications that he does to the 6 speed transmissions with these issues in mind. I'll let him discuss them (or keep them to himself ) as he wishes. So, anyone broken a TRE modified 6 speed?

 

Bill Ziegler went through a few of them racing T2 Nationals before he and Jon decided that a 5-Speed swap was in order (and why not an IX motor while he's at it). Jon does magic with trannies, but there is only so much that can be done. Yes, Bill has a full tranny oil cooler setup and drives the **** outta the car.

 

I am aware of torque multiplication happening. It is the whole idea behind a transmission. But in 1st gear the highest amount of torque being applied is to the gear on the output shaft not the gear on the input shaft. Smaller gear on input shaft drives bigger gear on output shaft. Torque is mulitplied because for several revolution of the smaller gear, 1 revolution of the bigger gear occurs.

Torque = force at a 90 deg angle x radius

Now think of the input drive shaft a that contains a certain amount of rotational force on it. In 1st gear, the gears on the input shaft won't experience as much torque as the 1st gear on the output shaft. Why? because of the difference in radii. But as you go progressively higher through the gears the torque applied to the gears on the input shaft progressively rises because of increasing radii while the torque experienced by the gears in the output shaft progressively falls. IMHO you are partially correct. What I don't know is if it is the gear on the input shaft failing 1st or the gear on the output shaft. My suspicion in on the gear on the input shaft.

VR4orceCJ is correct, I spoke to Jon and he did mention that they had already tried shot-peening, cyrotreating and running an external cooler but still encountered transmission failures.

 

I'll share some of my findings.


5 speed rated working torque = 375ft.lbs
5 speed peak torque of simulated destructive load test = 900ft.lbs

6 speed rated working torque = 290fl.lbs
6 speed peak torque of simulated destructive load test = 700ft.lbs


Torque values are dynamic and approximate.

Choosing a clutch with an appropriate torque capacity for the application is wise. Ideally the clutch should hold 10-15% more torque than what the engine is capable of generating or half of burst torque.


WTZ never broke any gears in any of the transmission that we built for him but heat was an issue that never was fully resolved. I didn't see the oil cooler that he ended up using nor I am sure if the rules in T2 allow for a heat exchanger large enough to deal with the heat but a 20,000 BTU heat exchanger would not go unused if the 6 speed is to be tracked for extended periods of time.

Jon Ripple
www.teamrip.com

 

For those of you who may not be acquainted with Jon Ripple, he is the owner of Team Rip Engineering, and the transmission builder/guru.

His answers above should be the definitive comment in this thread. Still no broken TRE modded 6 speeds identified.

 

I thought they just said that Bill Zeigler's 6spds were built by Jon and still broke (just not the gears), right?

 

I see failures of the input shaft 1st gear. The input shaft is not made of the same material as the output shaft 1st gear, that steel is pretty hard but wow is it tough! Same for 2nd gear. I feel that proper shot peening will provide the longest service life but this is only 2nd to using a clutch with an appropriate torque capacity.

There is quite a bit happening when the transmission is loaded to the gills with torque, especially during a nasty clutch dump. Those peak torque numbers really push things around and usually not for the better. In general transmissions do not take gear & shaft deflection lightly and axial & radial thrust loads can easily exceed not only the limits of the bearings but their respective bores. Good thing those problems can be solved.

Jon@TRE

 

No, never any broken gears in WTZ's transmission. He had issue with overheating that caused stiffness between 3rd & 4th gear.

 

What does "working torque" mean? Is this the torque that my engine is generating in a 3rd/4th gear pull @ peak torque?

 

This reminds me of a question I have been meaning to ask you. What temp should we be looking at before we need to start slowing down on track? What number should we really stay away from?

Using a greddy temp gauge with the probe installed by the shifter mech like where you installed mine.

 

so what do you feel is the maximum torque capacity clutch that should be used in the 6-speed? thanks.