Ok, thanks. I didn't know IXs peaked at 12-15 at 7k like that - good info. I assume the MIVEC has something to do with that, although it does stop working at 6k rpm...

 

But, do you really think the tune would be so bad that it would cause that much timing to be pulled? Something doesn't add up here.

This isn't directed at you WARR. It is always interesting when a vendor is bashed by people other than their customers, though unfortunately this is very common on EVOm. It really makes you wonder what their motive is.

FWIW, I have no Works products and am not a Works customer.

 

No, i agree with you, Robert. If you read my early comments, you see that I do not jump straight to any conclusions, and I do seriously doubt that anyone could really tune so bad that there be knock through the roof with timing in the low single digits. I made a point to say that earlier, too, I think. It is apparent, however, that there are serious issues with this car, whatever the case may be. I think the underlying point of the OP (and Razor) is that this seems to be a trend with cars they have personally witnessed...

 

I've never had any issues with my tune personally, then again I don't thrash my car like a lot of guys.

 

Warr, this is partly the reason I flipped. Please god tell me your not serious when you tell me that the block of 8's at load 220 through 260 at 2500 thru 3500 rpm is NOT something you should be concerned about. Think about what happens right smack dab in the middle of those RPM's......need a hint? Full boost. Generally equating to peak torque. I dont know about you, but my "conservative" works tune is set at 1-3*'s in those areas. This info isnt coming from "certain someone" bashing threads. I have maps from him, when he did the tuning day here. I sit at work all day and play with maps. Ive learned a ton about ecuflash, and Im just learning more each day. The only thing Im sponging in the ecuflash forum is how to tune my car. Theres some smart cookies in that forum though, so if you are laughing when they pick apart your tune, I would be a touch concerned.

And yes, the reason I said you cant draw conclusions was because my timing is NOWHERE near that high at 7k. Mine is 7* at 260 load 7000rpm. So judging by that, its not pulling that much timing. Besides, even on the 8 maps I have, 17-20 is for meth maps. Even on Al's tunes. Those are good numbers to be running if your running high octane/meth, so you wont hear any bashing here.

Im not sure what happened with these guys tunes. Im not gonna say Works might have jacked it up. But I would call them and make sure before anything. I did alot of research on works before I got my car flashed, I put my car on a dyno with a wideband afterwards, and I havent seen much problems. The only time I have a problem is when I get crap gas, which tends to happen with 91.

Also last question. If they are using p2 flashes, that means ecu is controlling boost right? Whats boost set at? Because I only get that kind of knock when I play with my wastegate duty cycles, when I was tryin to learn how to adjust boost with ecu.

 

Thankyou for clearing that up for me.

 

I sure hope your timing doesn't peak at 7* at 7k. Are you basing your response here off what your map says and not off what your datalogger says when you log runs? I doubt you are 260 load at 7k - remember that the boost tapers significantly. You should be close to 16-17* at 7k. On 93, we see 19-20* even without tuning...that's just on the stock tune. On race gas, I used to see 24*. You can't just look at your map and know what timing you're getting. 5* is ridiculously low for 7k rpm and so is 7k.

Btw, no, I do not hit peak boost anywhere near 2500rpm, but I certainly do NOT MIND 8* at peak boost. In fact, I prefer it. I have always made great power with it without knock. I ran 12.26@110 with it, and that was just a base flash. 1-3* at peak boost is terribly weak, imo. That's what I used to get with my SAFC, which sucked, because it killed my torque. After the flash, I got all that torque plus more peak WHP and of course a lot more total area under the curve.

I still haven't seen an explanation for your comments about me whoring in the Works forum when I've never posted there. You just said part of the reason for you flipping out is my comment about the 8*, yet you flipped out well before I commented on that, so nice try, but no one's buying it...

 

So I know you'll relish this Warr, but holy crap I just read that norcal thread. Its been a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind, and granted I cant say what knock Im getting because I swap my flashes out constantly, but Im really starting to think Works wasnt the way to go. I know, its hard saying it. Im not saying I should have went to Al, dont get me wrong. I think at this point I could have tuned alot better myself.

8*'s at peak torque knocks for me. Ive brought it down just a touch. That works for 93 maybe, but we arent as fortunate. I taper to about 220 load at 7k, so no Im not still in my 260 load cell. I believe at 220 my timing is 12*. Im at home and laptop is in car, so couldnt give you exact numbers.

Either way, I ordered my zt-2 monday so I could start really tuning myself. Looks like thats going to more of a necessity than a convenience now! I was just gonna run works flash on the street and tune for a meth map (be here in a few weeks). Guess thats out.

 

Holy cow, that's a lot of knock and judging by the way it progresses upward I'd guess it's real knock and not phantom.

8 degrees at peak torque seems awfully high.

 

It's not, and it makes a lot of torque. It may be too much for 91oct, but then you just turn it down. This car didn't have 8* of timing at peak torque, though.

 

Isn't SEMA over? Where is WORKS' response in all of this?

 

They said on the norcal evo thread to call them on thursday. They are doing a time attack event yesterday and today. I'll be giving them a ring, thats for sure. Have my stock works flash back in now, gonna test it with the chevron I put in yesterday. Usually my knocks arent too bad on chevron, its when Im damn near out of gas and can only find a sinclair when I knock to high hell. (Couple days ago)

 

And I didnt see them at SEMA anyway. Only guys I ran into were martin and eric from AMS. Cool guys actually, and they did some tuning while they were here on the weekend. I should have had them take a look at my car

 

I would recommend everyone thats running a Works P2 flash to get their car check.

 

I think i'm going to invest in EVOscan just to see and for logging purposes down the line.

I think my car runs great. I don't feel it pulling timing and I don't hear any detonation. But you know how that goes.

I run 93 and I think my car is rich.