When I first saw this thread I didn't think much of it, the car in question probably had something wrong with it and combined with 91oct that was it.

But, I just read the thread from norcalevo... damn. AFRs and IDC that just don't seem right on lightly modded cars.

1 person has a problem... isolated issue
2 people see similiar issues... no big deal

4,5,6...more people see similar things, time to check it out.

I'll be cancelling my backordered Works air filter and ordering a tactrix cable and downloading evoscan.

I honestly can't believe it, I researched the flash I bought for months and months. The stock boost control and 'safe conservative tune, power under the curve' sold me.

we'll see....

Any other Works customers going to log their tunes?

 

I am too, but I need to know what all to get. Got links?

 

Here's what you'll need:

http://www.tactrix.com for the cable. $89

http://www.limitless.co.nz/evoscan/ for the logger. $25

If you want to do more than log:
http://www.openecu.org for flashing software

and I would get a wideband...

Did you see that norcalevo thread? I still can't believe it... I hope it's not the case with our tunes.

 

This is the part that baffles me. Why do people think the Works flashes are the only ones that have "boost control." EVERY flasher can do that, and it's not even the flash that raises the boost - they give you a boost hose modification that any tuner can do. Just about every major Evo flasher has a provision for this if you don't run an MBC. The safe/conservative part is pretty meaningless, too, because you don't need to run around with a really rich and conservative tune to be safe. Even the tuners who tune their flashes to the ragged edge with big boost don't go around blowing engines, but then there are other tuners who stay away from that edge. There's no need to go WAY WAY below that edge - it just robs you of power and provides no additional safety. And lastly, the power under the curve - I don't know what would give someone the idea that these more conservative tunes with near-stock boost would have more area under the curve than other more aggressive tunes. It just doesn't make sense and has not been substantiated in my 2 years in the Evo world.

FastAzz, it's all documented in the EcuFlash forum. Read up and edify yourself. You are making the right choice on that. However, look at your trap speed. If all you have is an exhaust and a Works flash, yet are trapping 111, you should be a pretty happy camper, although it's still a good idea to log things and check 'em out.

 

Hey Warr,
I got the flash Jan 06 and at the time some tuners were claiming stock boost control, but works was the only I saw that actually resized the boost restrictor pill to allow the boost control solenoid to stay with it's duty cycle.

One tuner was removing the pill altogether, and another was recommending disconnecting the soleniod. Both approaches were not acceptable to me. Maybe this has changed and there are more solutions with effective stock boost control.

 

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I love my Works drop-in filter.

I am a neophyte when it comes to tuning, however I just recently logged my car with EvoScan. I too experienced some higher knock counts (16 at least at 6000+). However, I think there are some things people need to understand.

Tuners tune differently. THe Evo has a very, very good ECU that protects the car very well. Some tune by riding the car's knock sensor. People who are expecting to see less than 5 knock events at each RPM logged are not going to be happy with this kind of tune.

I don't know why some of the Works cars have such high knock counts. If you have a problem, I suggest calling Works. Although they seem reluctant, maybe they can explain in a public forum why people seem to have higher than expected knock. That's my .02.

 

I had my P2 for probably 40K miles on my Evo and never had any problems with the car. I know every car will be different but, my car was pretty strong and is still running strong (with the new owner) If I ever buy another Evo, WORKS will be the only shop to touch it, and believe me im very picky.

 

Couln't this knock be phantom knock (caused by exhaust rattle, etc.) ??? My understanding is that phantom knock and real knock are seen as knock by the ECU and the ECU pulls timing.....IMHO, seeing 7 + counts of knock is not good and seeing 20+ counts of knock is a serious problem and requires a 'trained professional' to diagnose the problem.

Without seeing the map and the car, it is almost impossible to resolve. Works is a top notch shop, with highly skilled engineers and mechanics, so I have to believe there is more to this story than a bad flash....

For what it is worth, I would strongly suggest calling / writing John at Jestrtuning....

 

Thanks atl, I guess it looks like I cancelled my air filter order because of these concerns. That's not the case, I just didn't want to spend money on that and the tactrix/evoscan stuff at the same time.

At some point I'll get the filter but I wanted to log the tune before I do anything else.

 

I am super picky as well, and I have been quite happy with the WORKS flash. I'm hoping this is an isolated issue.

As soon as I get my stuff I'll post the logs here...

 

I am really happy. I would be happier if I was down into the 11's, but with just a downpipe, cat delete, and catback w/flash it proves difficult without raising the boost from the computer controlled works flash.

could I simply disconnect the factory hose put in a boost controller, run race gas and run 25psi for the track? Or should I get it tuned for something like that?

 

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000

 

I like my P2 flash as well, it hasn't been problem free but it was orders of magnitude better than the flash I had before. That being said, I love what EvoScan/EvoFlash has enabled me to do - take the lid of the black box and disspell some of the "black art" nonsense that people have built around tuning a car.

When I buy a tune, I'm buying a service - not a product. For any vendor to sell me a tune and say I cannot see what they do is BS. That would be lke Jiffy lube saying I can't watch while they are doing an oil-change. I don't go to JL, because I have watched / seen what they do, and so now I can make an informed decision of where to get my oil change. That is *exactly* the most important benefit of what EvoScan/Flash has given the community - do away with the ridicolous secrecy so now I can make an informed decision on who I let tune my car.

The flip-side is that tuners now have to face the following decision: try to hold on to the secrecy and bank on marketing & fan-clubs to keep selling their service, or try to support the process of educating their customers so they can make sense of the newly available wealth of information and make the right decision for themselves.

I'll choose knowing over believing every time.

 

As far as I'm concerned, an educated public is always better than an ignorant one. People who rely on ignorance to peddle products don't operate with integrity, IMHO.

 

Here is some more data for Works flashes.

After seeing this thread I bought a Tactrix cable and logged with evoscan.

One pull is below, I did 4-5 different pulls last night and they all had almost identical knock counts

Almost stock 04 evo, 30k miles, P2R flash and axle back type muffler

Mobil1 93 oct, about 45 deg F

3rd gear

RPM KnockSum LoadMax OctaneFlag
2281 0 115 100
2344 0 114.375 100
2344 0 116.25 100
2344 0 117.5 100
2344 0 117.5 100
2344 0 118.75 100
2375 0 119.375 100
2406 0 120 100
2438 0 121.875 100
2438 0 122.5 100
2438 0 123.75 100
2438 0 124.375 100
2469 0 126.25 100
2500 0 126.875 100
2500 0 128.125 100
2500 0 129.375 100
2531 0 130 100
2531 0 131.25 100
2563 0 133.125 100
2813 1 158.75 100
2813 1 159.375 100
2813 1 159.375 100
2844 1 159.375 100
2875 1 159.375 100
2906 1 159.375 100
2906 1 159.375 100
2938 1 159.375 100
2969 1 159.375 100
2969 1 159.375 100
2969 1 159.375 100
3000 1 159.375 100
3031 0 159.375 100
3094 0 159.375 100
3094 0 159.375 100
3094 0 159.375 100
3125 0 159.375 100
3156 0 159.375 100
3188 0 159.375 100
3219 0 159.375 100
3219 0 159.375 100
3219 0 159.375 100
3281 0 159.375 100
3313 0 159.375 100
3313 0 159.375 100
3344 0 159.375 100
3344 0 159.375 100
3375 0 159.375 100
3469 0 159.375 100
3469 0 159.375 100
3469 0 159.375 100
3500 0 159.375 100
3531 0 159.375 100
3563 0 159.375 100
3594 1 159.375 100
3594 1 159.375 100
3594 0 159.375 100
3656 0 159.375 100
3688 0 159.375 100
3719 0 159.375 100
3719 0 159.375 100
3750 0 159.375 100
3750 0 159.375 100
3813 0 159.375 100
3844 0 159.375 100
3875 0 159.375 100
3875 0 159.375 100
3906 0 159.375 100
4813 0 159.375 100
4813 0 159.375 100
4813 0 159.375 100
4844 0 159.375 100
4906 0 159.375 100
4938 0 159.375 100
4938 0 159.375 100
4938 0 159.375 100
5000 0 159.375 100
5031 0 159.375 100
5063 0 159.375 100
5063 0 159.375 100
5063 0 159.375 100
5125 0 159.375 100
5156 0 159.375 100
5188 0 159.375 100
5188 0 159.375 100
5188 0 159.375 100
5250 0 159.375 100
5281 0 159.375 100
5313 0 159.375 100
5313 0 159.375 100
5313 0 159.375 100
5375 0 159.375 100
5406 0 159.375 100
5406 0 159.375 100
5438 0 159.375 100
5438 0 159.375 100
5500 0 159.375 100
5531 0 159.375 100
5531 0 159.375 100
5531 0 159.375 100
5594 0 159.375 100
5625 0 159.375 100
5656 0 159.375 100
5625 0 159.375 100
5656 0 159.375 100
5688 0 159.375 100
5719 0 159.375 100
5750 0 159.375 100
5781 0 159.375 100
5781 0 159.375 100
5781 0 159.375 100
5813 0 159.375 100
5844 0 159.375 100
5906 0 159.375 100
5938 0 159.375 100
5969 0 159.375 100
5938 0 159.375 100
5969 0 159.375 100
5969 0 159.375 100
5969 0 159.375 100
6031 0 159.375 100
6031 0 159.375 100
6094 0 159.375 100
6063 0 159.375 100
6094 0 159.375 100
6125 0 159.375 100
6125 0 159.375 100
6156 0 159.375 100
6188 0 159.375 100
6188 0 159.375 100
6188 0 159.375 100
6250 0 159.375 100
6250 0 159.375 100
6281 0 159.375 100
6313 0 159.375 100
6313 0 159.375 100
6313 0 159.375 100
6344 0 159.375 100
6375 0 159.375 100
6406 0 159.375 100
6406 0 159.375 100
6406 0 159.375 100
6438 0 159.375 100
6469 0 159.375 100
6469 0 159.375 100
6500 0 159.375 100
6531 0 159.375 100
6531 0 159.375 100
6531 0 159.375 100
6563 0 159.375 100
6594 0 159.375 100
6625 0 159.375 100
6625 0 159.375 100
6656 0 159.375 100
6688 0 159.375 100
6688 0 159.375 100
6719 0 159.375 100
6719 0 159.375 100
6750 0 159.375 100
6781 0 159.375 100
6781 0 159.375 100
6813 0 159.375 100
6813 0 159.375 100
6844 0 159.375 100
6844 0 159.375 100
6875 0 159.375 100
6906 0 159.375 100
6938 0 159.375 100
6906 0 159.375 100
6938 0 159.375 100
6969 0 159.375 100
7000 0 159.375 100
7000 0 159.375 100
7031 0 159.375 100
7031 0 159.375 100
7063 0 159.375 100
7094 0 159.375 100
7125 0 159.375 100
7125 0 159.375 100
7125 0 159.375 100
7156 0 159.375 100
7188 0 159.375 100
7188 0 159.375 100
7219 0 159.375 100
7219 0 159.375 100
7250 0 159.375 100
7281 0 159.375 100
7313 0 159.375 100
7313 0 159.375 100
7313 0 159.375 100
7344 0 159.375 100
7375 0 159.375 100
7375 0 159.375 100
7406 0 159.375 100
7406 0 159.375 100
7438 0 159.375 100
7438 0 159.375 100
7438 1 159.375 100
7469 1 159.375 100