why do honda engines make so much more power with less boost
ok there are no such thing a 4g63 non Turbo, The motor that came in standard with the Rs' and non turobed Eclispes, Laser's and Talons, all had the engine code for the 420a, Thats the same motor that was in the Dodge Neon, and Chryslers POS motor that always blew the head gaskets. So you need to check your info again.
You are correct. But you clearly didnt read his post....So please re Read and understand that he's asking about built motors. Most Hondas that are built "GSRs" or b18c's are all higher compression than the EVO;s stock compression. Unles its a LS motor and i bleive that has 9.1:1 last i checked. but i know its somewhere in that neighborhood.
If you have ever looked at an EVO graph with a 35R then you see that when its making 500WHP its only making like 369-390 Wtq as well. So thats usually a displacement issue found in all these car smaller 2.0 cars. ever notice that a 2.3L EVO with a 35r always has some serious torque numbers.... Hence when its such a popular upgrade!?
You are correct. But you clearly didnt read his post....So please re Read and understand that he's asking about built motors. Most Hondas that are built "GSRs" or b18c's are all higher compression than the EVO;s stock compression. Unles its a LS motor and i bleive that has 9.1:1 last i checked. but i know its somewhere in that neighborhood.
If you have ever looked at an EVO graph with a 35R then you see that when its making 500WHP its only making like 369-390 Wtq as well. So thats usually a displacement issue found in all these car smaller 2.0 cars. ever notice that a 2.3L EVO with a 35r always has some serious torque numbers.... Hence when its such a popular upgrade!?
I use to have an Integra VTEC GSR with a built 1.8L 9:1 compression bottom-end & port/polish head and a Haltech EMS and I was making an easy 450+whp @ 20psi with a t3/t4 60-1...and 365whp @ 13psi
Now I have an Evo making 440 @ 28psi with a GT30r running the same 9:1 comp...I always ask this same question Ha-Ha-Ha how do Honda's make so much more power at lower boost levels at same compression ratio...must be the VTEC
On thing is for certain though...my EVO is a million times more reliable and stronger, and all the power get's to the ground!! God I love my EVO!!!
Now I have an Evo making 440 @ 28psi with a GT30r running the same 9:1 comp...I always ask this same question Ha-Ha-Ha how do Honda's make so much more power at lower boost levels at same compression ratio...must be the VTEC
On thing is for certain though...my EVO is a million times more reliable and stronger, and all the power get's to the ground!! God I love my EVO!!!
Last edited by EvO6-RS2; Feb 8, 2007 at 05:06 PM.
Cool your jets, I wasnt being an *** about it. i was simply telling him to check his resources....
But your both right I got OWNED!
Last edited by Spooldyou; Feb 8, 2007 at 05:16 PM.
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Dont believe what the honda nerds tell you, it's all lies. Extremely hard to make 400hp at the front wheels on pump for a honda. Every one of those honda junkies have some BS up their sleeve, and they will NEVER tell you exactly what they run. When someone tells you they run a certain compression ratio, ask them to prove it. On normal motors, I'm pretty sure every psi of boost = 10hp, so do the math, the honda dorks are lying to you.
when he came around for his second run he said that he is going to set it up to 12psi. i was think damn he got that time running less then 12psi. i then asked him what his compession was he said" nah i cant give out my secerts" i was like ok whateva. he went for his second run and boom motor gone at the line. well i guess his secert died with his motor.
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Some high horsepower/big turbo Honduh's, like gt42r sized turbo's, are still running stock cams. That should tell you something about how well the heads/cams/valvetrain flows from the factory.
It's just a combination of head design, vtec, and lack of drivetrain loss that all add up.
It's just a shame Honduh doesn't make more/any RWD and AWD cars, cause big power FWD cars aren't that fun.
It's just a combination of head design, vtec, and lack of drivetrain loss that all add up.
It's just a shame Honduh doesn't make more/any RWD and AWD cars, cause big power FWD cars aren't that fun.
I think its hard to argue the fact that the mivec 4g is the best production 4 cyl ever made in terms of reliable power production. An evo 9 can male 400 crank hp with less than 1500 dollars on pump gas, and countless evos have over 500 hp, and some 500whp. All on stock bottom ends. From what ive seen on the street, and at the drag strip, very few other 4 cylinders can put out 400 let alone 500 hp on stock internals. even the mighty srt4 needs rods past 400 whp. As far as ultimate power potential goes, the 4g shines there as well as it has made 1050+ whp. (ams)
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the mivec head is no where close to theflow capicaties and the design of a vtec head on a honda. mivec is only on the intake cam and it switches over to the higher cam lows relatively early in the rpm band. what as hondas nad vtec on both camshaft and they have 2 completely different cam lobs on both the vtec and non vtec lobe and normally switches to vtec past 5krpm. the head ports and valve angles also flow superior
UNFAIR!!!!
Well since you're same BUILD Honda motor then you're saying upgraded internals (Piston, Rod and maybe Crank), so ofcourse the components are better so naturally makes more HP.
I will BS if some says that they're Honda is making 400 whp with stock rod.
You're comparing a built motor with with a GT35R turbo on Honda and an Evo with a GT35R turbo upgrade. The Honda has the advantage of a built motor so ofcourse it'll make more power.
To be fair, you must compare both engine built with the same compression. What one upgrades the other has too as well.
Well since you're same BUILD Honda motor then you're saying upgraded internals (Piston, Rod and maybe Crank), so ofcourse the components are better so naturally makes more HP.
I will BS if some says that they're Honda is making 400 whp with stock rod.
You're comparing a built motor with with a GT35R turbo on Honda and an Evo with a GT35R turbo upgrade. The Honda has the advantage of a built motor so ofcourse it'll make more power.
To be fair, you must compare both engine built with the same compression. What one upgrades the other has too as well.
Read it all in this thread....
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1478127
highest one is 630hp on a stock b series block.
i'm not sure but i heard somewhere awd loses more power to the wheels than a fwd honda's on the dyno.. Thats why honda's are showing a bit more power on dyno's then EVO's. I think the theory is true, but i might be wrong. I used to have a 600 hp integra myself. wrecked it and then got an evo. pump gas was 475hp and race gas i was well over 600hp, my slicks lost traction ON THE DYNO!! .. Ran 11.1 @124 mph on pump gas!! Never got to do a race gas run because my car wrecked on the way to a race. I miss the car though.. My evo is still stock for now. I wanna build a destroked motor and rev as high as a honda!! lol i don't know yet but we'll see.
Last edited by Top_End_EVO; Feb 9, 2007 at 03:29 AM.
I think its hard to argue the fact that the mivec 4g is the best production 4 cyl ever made in terms of reliable power production. An evo 9 can male 400 crank hp with less than 1500 dollars on pump gas, and countless evos have over 500 hp, and some 500whp. All on stock bottom ends. From what ive seen on the street, and at the drag strip, very few other 4 cylinders can put out 400 let alone 500 hp on stock internals. even the mighty srt4 needs rods past 400 whp. As far as ultimate power potential goes, the 4g shines there as well as it has made 1050+ whp. (ams)
http://www.bobnorwood.com/Max-4%20Te...%20Summary.htm
http://www.bobnorwood.com/Max-4%20Home.htm
Last edited by honda-guy; Feb 9, 2007 at 05:05 AM.
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****
I think if you engineer a very hp/iter N/A engine, you consquently end up with a powerful turbo engine when people start tinkering with them, but it won't have the durability of a purpose built turbo motor like the 4G63. (Which does't need to be sleeved) It would be more of fair comparison if people took Mitsubishis's answer to the B16A, the DOHC MIVEC 4G92 (1.6L 175hp) and then turbocharged it to see how they stack up. I'd imagine the Honda would still win, but at least the comparisons would make more sense.
Last edited by GPTourer; Feb 9, 2007 at 08:41 AM.
So what. DSMs are dirt cheap. Comparing old civics and tegs to newer Evos and then talking strictly about max hp is lame. There's plenty of reasons why it costs more to get an Evo then some old Civic. I could buy an old Mirage or Colt or get paid to by someone to tow it out of their back yard and pay Buschur or AMS to build me a 600, 800, or even a 1000hp 4G63 just like the Honda heads can do with an old hatch and a B20/b16A hybrid.
An evo 9 can male 400 crank hp with less than 1500 dollars on pump gas, and countless evos have over 500 hp, and some 500whp.
As far as ultimate power potential goes, the 4g shines there as well as it has made 1050+ whp. (ams)
Last edited by honda-guy; Feb 9, 2007 at 08:55 AM.